Elon Musk Confirms Tesla Full Self-Driving Subscriptions Coming Early 2021

[run-the-joules]

They should allow transfer of FSD to a new Tesla for current FSD customers. Many have had this for years with little more than automatic lane changing sort of working.

This is what everyone who is sane and not a complete sycophantic cultist thinks, too… and yet, here we are, watching our cars get older and older

On the bright side, some people think that because we bought before they moved the goalposts, our early FSD purchases come with the largest financial liability for Tesla in the case of a class action suit. I'm not a lawyer, but I hope that's the case since I find it incredibly unlikely we're ever going to get what we were sold.

 

[banned-66611]

FSD is part of the car and follows the car.

It doesn't, if you sell it they will disable it for the next owner and make them buy it again.

So actually you didn't even buy FSD, you just rented it for the period of your ownership and have nothing to show for it at the end.

 

[KidA]

This is speculation, but I’d expect two things to happen: first, the subscription starts out relatively low at ~$75-100/month or so and then ramps up substantially as features are released. Second, the release of the subscription model coincides with a substantial increase in the purchase price.

Reasoning being, Tesla probably wants to stop selling perpetual FSD licenses because by doing so, they lose out on future revenue streams for that vehicle. So, currently, the purchase price needs to be low enough that people buy it, but high enough that not too many people do so. When the subscription model goes live, there’s no more incentive to keep the price “low” as they’ll want to push people to the subscriptions where they can raise the price at will.

At the same time, if they release a $100/month subscription, a lot of purchasers will feel left out. But, if the FSD perpetual price goes up to, let’s say $15k, they now have a potentially higher resale value. So, everyone walks away with something: Tesla disincentivizes perpetual licenses and keeps their ability to charge more in the future (and gets lots of new customers and driving data), new customers get FSD for what looks like $100/month (but later goes up according to the feature set), and early purchasers now have an asset that’s potentially worth more money.

 

[EVNow]

It doesn't, if you sell it they will disable it for the next owner and make them buy it again.

So actually you didn't even buy FSD, you just rented it for the period of your ownership and have nothing to show for it at the end.

Those two are not the same thing.

Question is whether you get credit for FSD when you sell. Also, if you sell privately, you get more for a car with FSD - and the FSD will continue to work for the new owner.

 

[teslick2]

I think your lease number is too low. Adding FSD ($10k) to a typical Tesla 36 month lease would increase the monthly payment by around $140 to $160 or so depending on model.

You’re right! I accidentally looked at the actual lease price and then compared it with the “with potential savings” lease price.

that being said, an extra ~$200/month for leases that are likely already $400-600/month would be a tough sell. At least for me it would be.

 

[teslick2]

FSD goes with the car if you sell privately. You are incorrect.

I was going to say, there were some news articles that stated software features were removed after sale, but I thought those were done in error and later corrected?

 

[banned-66611]

You’re right! I accidentally looked at the actual lease price and then compared it with the “with potential savings” lease price.

They really should stop doing that, it's so misleading.

 

[banned-66611]

This is speculation, but I’d expect two things to happen: first, the subscription starts out relatively low at ~$75-100/month or so and then ramps up substantially as features are released. Second, the release of the subscription model coincides with a substantial increase in the purchase price.

It will be the opposite, it will start off expensive and get cheaper as more competition becomes available. Look at how they have had to keep adding free features to autopilot because other manufacturers are overtaking them with better lane keeping and self parking.

That is assuming they go ahead with it. BMW floated the idea of subscription features but the backlash has been pretty severe.

 

[banned-66611]

Those two are not the same thing.

I did not say they were. That's why they are two separate paragraphs in fact, to more clearly indicate to you that they are separate, not directly connected statements.

Question is whether you get credit for FSD when you sell.

That's not the question, because we already know the answer: you get nothing.

 

[run-the-joules]

It doesn't, if you sell it they will disable it for the next owner and make them buy it again.

Well, if you sell it to Tesla that's what happens. if you sell privately it's not supposed to be disabled. On the other hand, Tesla's level of care about what's supposed to happen vs what actually happens is low.

On the bright side, I've still got my original MVPA showing it was part of the original sale, so whoever ends up with my car next has ammo if needed.

 

[KidA]

I was going to say, there were some news articles that stated software features were removed after sale, but I thought those were done in error and later corrected?

That sounds about right, IIRC. I’m not sure if Tesla would intentionally disable FSD on used cars, as I expect the percentage of people who would re-purchase it for a car with a limited life span is relatively small. By keeping it, or even adding it, they can sell it at a lower cost matched to the market value. For example, if 10% of used car owners buy $10k FSD, Tesla could offer FSD for $2k (e.g.) on all/most used cars of that age and come out ahead. Also, looking at the Tesla used inventory, the majority of cars do seem to have FSD.

 

[banned-66611]

Well, if you sell it to Tesla that's what happens. if you sell privately it's not supposed to be disabled. On the other hand, Tesla's level of care about what's supposed to happen vs what actually happens is low.

On the bright side, I've still got my original MVPA showing it was part of the original sale, so whoever ends up with my car next has ammo if needed.

Good luck with that. The number of posts in the thread about fighting Tesla over this is steadily increasing.

So if you sell it back to Tesla what do they value FSD at? What you paid? What it's worth now? Musk did say it was an "appreciating asset".

 

[banned-66611]

That sounds about right, IIRC. I’m not sure if Tesla would intentionally disable FSD on used cars, as I expect the percentage of people who would re-purchase it for a car with a limited life span is relatively small. By keeping it, or even adding it, they can sell it at a lower cost matched to the market value. For example, if 10% of used car owners buy $10k FSD, Tesla could offer FSD for $2k (e.g.) on all/most used cars of that age and come out ahead. Also, looking at the Tesla used inventory, the majority of cars do seem to have FSD.

I think $2k is optimistic. By the time they get it working it will not be an uncommon feature on other cars. Look at autopilot, these days even mid range models have it. You'd pay $2k to get it today, along with a bunch of other upgrades.

 

[timk225]

You really don't need FSD for long road trips. I've taken 700 mile highway trips in my Model 3 with Base AP and 2.5 hardware, and it did fully 95% of all the driving. I took over for getting on and off the highway and going to superchargers, but once I was back on the road, I just put it in autopilot and let it do it all. Changing lanes and turning Base AP back on afterwards was most of what I had to do after that.

Hey Tesla - sell me turn signal lane changes for $9.99 a month!

 

[banned-66611]

Don't give them ideas, BMW wanted to charge a subscription for heated seats and Apple Carplay.

 

[drtimhill]

I wonder about the pricing, I'd be willing to pay around $25-$50 a month, but that is way too low by my back of the envelope calculations. Say $50/month = $600 a year. The average American keeps their car around 4 years. So $2400 cost over lifetime versus $8000. If it was $200 a month, I can't see many people jumping on it, at least until the robo taxi feature comes along and we can recoup that investment. Besides highway driving, I find FSD is very fatiguing, as it constantly needs intervention, I'm reminded of teaching a new driver where you must be extra alert for things you think they will miss, and be ready to intervene constantly. No less stressful than just driving myself. Obviously your mileage will vary, my city has some truly awful and boneheaded traffic patterns that cause much confusing amongst even the best drivers.

Agreed .. if Tesla offer FSD subs at a low price point people who have paid for FSD up-front will be pretty mad (rightly I think). Otoh if they do the math as you have done the sub fee will be more expensive than many here wish for. The only way out I can think of is that Tesla shift current FSD purchases to be transferable to a new car .. so you can amortize the $8k over 8+ years instead (allowing about $100/month sub fee). That also helps to drive customer loyalty especially once there is more EV choice.

tbh I feel a lot of the price discussion is disingenuous .. ppl just want FSD without paying for it really.

 

[Zorg]

It doesn't, if you sell it they will disable it for the next owner and make them buy it again.

So actually you didn't even buy FSD, you just rented it for the period of your ownership and have nothing to show for it at the end.

That is not true. If I sell my car, next owner gets FSD

 

[banned-66611]

That is not true. If I sell my car, next owner gets FSD

That's not true, if you sell your car Tesla may decide to disable it. There is a thread on here about it.

 

[JBT66]

Two options should be possible.

Trade the car to Tesla, the seller agreed on price and shouldn’t care what happens after that. Tesla can do what they want to the car but needs to be clear of all features offered to future buyers.

Sell the car to a third party. Tesla shouldn’t touch any of the features on the car.

 

[Zorg]

Two options should be possible.

Trade the car to Tesla, the seller agreed on price and shouldn’t care what happens after that. Tesla can do what they want to the car but needs to be clear of all features offered to future buyers.

Sell the car to a third party. Tesla shouldn’t touch any of the features on the car.

If you look at Tesla used inventory, they add FSD to almost all cars.