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Elon discusses showing Tesla Pricing as reflective of annual gasoline savings
- Thread starter Law&Disorder
- Start date
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Yeah I hated how he Twittered it that they had given it thought but decided to keep it "since after all it's true". Talk about stubborn. Of course it's true, but Elon: people aren't engineers like you so to them this comes across as sleazy marketing. This time he should have listened to his PR. advisors. And to his biggest fans and advisors (us).
With an 8-year, unlimited miles warranty on the drive unit, how could someone have been "out of warranty?"
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
I was actually being sarcastic, sorry. I think this is a deliberately provocative move. Tesla has the 70D and the X coming, so it's dangling bait to try and get press. The competitors will say nothing, because the X is going to be up against their cash cows and they really aren't going to help Tesla's launch.
I expect Tesla to remove it once it's served its purpose.
The fuel cost savings is valuable info. It should be available on the site. Just not as part of the pricing.
List it along with the charging cost info as a comparison. Make it a "TCO" section. BEtter yet, make it a calculator so a person can plug in their own local fuel costs, MPG of their current car, and miles driven per month. That way the numbers are as "true" as possible for the prospective buyer.
It's cleaner and feels more honest that way.
List it along with the charging cost info as a comparison. Make it a "TCO" section. BEtter yet, make it a calculator so a person can plug in their own local fuel costs, MPG of their current car, and miles driven per month. That way the numbers are as "true" as possible for the prospective buyer.
It's cleaner and feels more honest that way.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
This is pretty brilliantly deduced on your part. Elon wants focus on this? Because he wants to "get it out there" that the fuel savings are huge and at the same time creating more free press (=advertising) for Tesla.
It's genius. Image Fox News running a bit where they go: "Car maker Tesla is being critized for presenting their customers with a much lower price on the car since the carmaker is choosing to account for fuel savings incurred during the life of the vehcile". Boom, free advertisin from Fox. For free.
<sarcasm on>
The gas savings is shown very prominently in the design studio and I don't see any fine print. Thus if I order the car, Tesla must be guaranteeing me that I will save about $10,000 in fuel costs over five years, and if I don't they will have to make up the difference to keep their promise. If they don't make up the difference, then I will have to file a class-action lawsuit against Tesla for misrepresentation. But wait, if I sign the purchase agreement for the car, I agree not to file any class-action lawsuits against Tesla. I guess I will have to find someone who didn't purchase the car to file one on my behalf. Maybe simpler still, I could avoid a messy lawsuit, by simply not buying the Model S in the first place. Or maybe, I should first buy another car with very poor gas mileage. Then Tesla's claims for gas savings will be correct.
</sarcasm off>
The gas savings is shown very prominently in the design studio and I don't see any fine print. Thus if I order the car, Tesla must be guaranteeing me that I will save about $10,000 in fuel costs over five years, and if I don't they will have to make up the difference to keep their promise. If they don't make up the difference, then I will have to file a class-action lawsuit against Tesla for misrepresentation. But wait, if I sign the purchase agreement for the car, I agree not to file any class-action lawsuits against Tesla. I guess I will have to find someone who didn't purchase the car to file one on my behalf. Maybe simpler still, I could avoid a messy lawsuit, by simply not buying the Model S in the first place. Or maybe, I should first buy another car with very poor gas mileage. Then Tesla's claims for gas savings will be correct.
</sarcasm off>
I don't appreciate the insinuation that I made something up or that i am spreading misinformation. Look up the forums on the Tesla Corporate Web site. This happened BEFORE the Tesla drivetrain warranty was 8 years unlimited miles. Someone ended up driving over 50K miles (the warranty back them) and had an issue with their drivetrain that necessitated the drivetrain being replaced for $15,000. So no it's not some random thing I heard. It actually happened to someone. Please don't insinuate what someone said is not true just because you don't have all the facts.
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/07/16...ive-tesla-unfunded-warranty-problem-headache/
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Except what forum members are trying to say is that that free advertising along with Tesla image takes a hit when they show how the $10,000 is grossly over exaggerated figure for a whole bunch of prospective customers. Our annual gas expenses are about $900. So the headline would not be the gas savings but it would be deceptive pricing.
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Like I responded to Johan, this happened before the warranty was 8 years and unlimited miles.
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Okay so now we can agree on something
Everyone I broached this topic with about the gasoline prices thought it was a sleazy or disingenuous tactic and I agree with you in that I think a lot of his fans here have a point in tat when you look at trim level prices, the first price they should list is the actual price you pay. I thought that was supposed to be the tesla way where they are up front about things and straightforward. Right now that $57,000 70D becomes $75,000 when you try to buy it and a lot of people are going to think Tesla is a company that plays games with them and unlike us they don't know the company better to balance those sentiments with how great they can be for customers.
Krugerrand
Meow
Those that are responding must not drive much, at all. $40 per week in gas is $2k for the year. I don't drive the most fuel efficient vehicle, but neither is it a gas guzzler, and I don't drive a huge amount but I can easily get to $2k in gas for the year, especially if I take a couple of weekend trips. I can't even fill my vehicle for $40 with gas at its current cheaper price.
Got it. I wasn't aware that anyone was actually charged for a drive unit replacement before the change to the warranty was made in August 2014. My assumption is that if the customer did indeed actually pay the $15,000, it was refunded to him/her after the warranty was retroactively changed. If not, we'd still be hearing about it here.
Drucifer
Active Member
It is really based on lousy assumptions. I currently drive a Chevy Volt and buy about 8 gallons of gas a year. It would take me 400 years to realize the claimed savings. So, no, it isn't true.
If I drove a large SUV and a lot of miles, it might be an understatement. In any event, individual circumstances are so variable, the claim is worthless, even if it is the exact median savings.
If I drove a large SUV and a lot of miles, it might be an understatement. In any event, individual circumstances are so variable, the claim is worthless, even if it is the exact median savings.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
No MsElectric is right, the good shills do their homework well, I remember and this guy I believe was running a Limo service or some such thing, using the car for commercial purposes, up in San Fransisco. So I don't doubt that the price is correct. But why bring it up in a thread where what's really is discussed is how Tesla present the gas savings?
I guess I am in the minority with you. I drive 40000km per year, and was spending 300-400/month in gas in my old ICE.
My only beef is that my warranty will be up in 2 years, not 4. (battery and drive train are still covered, but I'll have to purchase the extended warranty at the end of my 2nd year driving).
Add me to that list, but I drive 40,000 miles per year. I'm out of warranty in 15 months, other than drive unit and battery. Debating whether to buy the extended warranty, but that seems like a lot of money for only an additional 15 months of warranty. I think there are a lot of things on cars which are more time related than mileage related, and that's where we high mileage drivers lose out with warranties. I chose to skip Pano and Air Suspension as I figured those would each likely be expensive repairs needed during the 240k miles I plan on putting on my car.
The plus side to my high mileage driving is that I'm saving a lot more than $10,000 in fuel over five years of ownership.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
I think the main problem is that the average savings, even if correct, is not relevant to many. Most buyers want to know THEIR savings, which as we have seen could vary quite a bit.
I think Tesla could accomplish their goals (to make people aware of the savings - the car is not as expensive at it seems, and the difference is larger than most people guess) better, and get rid of the complaints, if they simply show the actual price next to a button that says "See how much you can save!" that takes them to a calculator that asks their current MPG (or if they already have an EV) and miles per year. Bonus points for asking if they are likely to receive the federal tax credit, and applying state incentives if any.
I think Tesla could accomplish their goals (to make people aware of the savings - the car is not as expensive at it seems, and the difference is larger than most people guess) better, and get rid of the complaints, if they simply show the actual price next to a button that says "See how much you can save!" that takes them to a calculator that asks their current MPG (or if they already have an EV) and miles per year. Bonus points for asking if they are likely to receive the federal tax credit, and applying state incentives if any.
For what it's worth, I'm in the camp that suggests listing cash price in big numbers up top, then listing the savings beneath - federal tax credit, state incentives, fuel savings, etc., with a slightly smaller font and/or calculator for personal savings.
For my family of 6, I replaced a Chevy Suburban with Model S. My fuel savings are significantly more than what Tesla figures (vs. 14 MPG vehicle, $3.20/gal avg, $.09/kWh), and my electricity prices are considered HIGH for my area (rural co-op). Ameren Illinois has been averaging about $.06/kWh for past few years.
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Yes, this.
For my family of 6, I replaced a Chevy Suburban with Model S. My fuel savings are significantly more than what Tesla figures (vs. 14 MPG vehicle, $3.20/gal avg, $.09/kWh), and my electricity prices are considered HIGH for my area (rural co-op). Ameren Illinois has been averaging about $.06/kWh for past few years.
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Yes, this.
brucet999
Active Member
That you can't fill your vehicle for $40 has little meaning except that you have a large tank.
Most people with fairly new cars are probably getting upwards of 25 mpg, those with diesels or pricey hybrids are getting 40 to 50 mpg. A BMW 535i gets 28.
Elon's figures are based on 15,000 miles and 20mpg, mileage that only the big V8s get - Lexus LS460, BMW 550i, etc.
Most respondents do not live in CA where we suffer from west-of-rockies high oil prices, super high gasoline taxes and 20 cent a gallon "summer additive" burden, so their fuel is much cheaper than ours.
That being said, I too find the large-print $10,000 gas savings deduction in the price box annoying; maybe even a little sleazy.
A separate TCO box, on the other hand, with 5-year estimated savings on fuel and scheduled maintenance, including smog testing and brake jobs, would be appropriate and even helpful.
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