Eastern Canada Superchargers

[mknox]

Great news! A super Christmas present for all of the patient Model S owners in Southern Ontario!

Well for south-east Ontario owners, I guess. Still waiting on the 401 west of Toronto...

 

[GoodCheer]

I know it's not really part of the Eastern Canada Superchargers thread, but there seems to be movement on the Buffalo supercharger as well.

I think there's a lot to be said for Buffalo facilitating travel in Eastern Canada... at least as a good step: Getting SCs in London, Buffalo, Syracuse, and maybe Scranton would really open up travel between the Detroit - Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal - Quebec corridor and the Washington - Philly - NYC - Boston corridor. I don't pretend to speak for anyone else, but much of my out-of-town business is in the US NorthEast and Mid-Atlantic.

 

[hingisfan]

I stopped by Kingston site today and took a few pics....noticed they are running 4 sets of wires from the transformer to the SC area. Not sure if that means they are pre-wiring to add 2 more stalls (as there will be 6 to start), or if its just a coincidence.

 

[RAM_Eh]

What you are looking at is a duct bank. 4 conduits, some may be empty and for the future. Easier to put them in now than to dig it up again. I would only think 2 to 3 are being used.

 

[RichardC]

Thanks for the updates and pics!

 

[glenhurst]

I think there's a lot to be said for Buffalo facilitating travel in Eastern Canada... at least as a good step: Getting SCs in London, Buffalo, Syracuse, and maybe Scranton would really open up travel between the Detroit - Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal - Quebec corridor and the Washington - Philly - NYC - Boston corridor. I don't pretend to speak for anyone else, but much of my out-of-town business is in the US NorthEast and Mid-Atlantic.

I agree. I'm planning a trip along the Toronto - Quebec corridor for next summer. Curiously, the one missing piece is a SC in Detroit. It's 175mi from London to Toledo, or 200mi from London to Jackson. You'd think Tesla would therefore plan a SC in Detroit or Windsor. But there's no mention of it on Tesla SC map, at least up through 2015.

 

[miimura]

What you are looking at is a duct bank. 4 conduits, some may be empty and for the future. Easier to put them in now than to dig it up again. I would only think 2 to 3 are being used.

I'm not an expert, but the Superchargers are designed for 480Y277 power which is 4 wires at about 800A/phase for a bank of 4 Supercharger cabinets. I would guess they're putting one group of cables for each phase in each conduit, with the cables for the neutral in the 4th conduit. This install is a little unusual for the distance between the Supercharger cabinets and the transformer. Then there is the issue of 600VAC power in Canada vs. 480VAC in USA.

 

[RAM_Eh]

I'm not an expert, but the Superchargers are designed for 480Y277 power which is 4 wires at about 800A/phase for a bank of 4 Supercharger cabinets. I would guess they're putting one group of cables for each phase in each conduit, with the cables for the neutral in the 4th conduit. This install is a little unusual for the distance between the Supercharger cabinets and the transformer. Then there is the issue of 600VAC power in Canada vs. 480VAC in USA.

We don't know he incoming voltage from the street. For all we know it is 13800V...or 27600V to the primary of the transformer. If this is the case it will only require use of one of the conduits. The other may be used for communication.

Hard to see how many conduits there are. I thought 4.

 

[Cottonwood]

I'm not an expert, but the Superchargers are designed for 480Y277 power which is 4 wires at about 800A/phase for a bank of 4 Supercharger cabinets. I would guess they're putting one group of cables for each phase in each conduit, with the cables for the neutral in the 4th conduit. This install is a little unusual for the distance between the Supercharger cabinets and the transformer. Then there is the issue of 600VAC power in Canada vs. 480VAC in USA.

Here is some info from the Kingston plans referenced earlier:

Of note:

1. The Canadian Utility is providing a 480 Volt transformer.
2. There is a 4 inch conduit from the transformer to the Distribution Center (service equipment).
3. 3 inch conduits are used from the Distribution Center to each Supercharger Cabinet.
4. Not shown here, but the cable bundle from the Supercharger Cabinet to each Supercharger Pedestal (charging post) is in a 3 inch conduit.

None of the conduits shown look like they are 3 or 4 inches in size. Although it looks shallow for a Medium Voltage (distribution) feed to the Utility Transformer, that is what these conduits seem to be.

 

[mknox]

I agree. I'm planning a trip along the Toronto - Quebec corridor for next summer. Curiously, the one missing piece is a SC in Detroit. It's 175mi from London to Toledo, or 200mi from London to Jackson. You'd think Tesla would therefore plan a SC in Detroit or Windsor. But there's no mention of it on Tesla SC map, at least up through 2015.

There is some speculation that a Supercharger may be going in at the little town of Comber, ON just off Hwy 401 near Windsor and that a second is going in at Woodstock, ON. Not sure if London is still in the cards.

 

[sitter_k]

There is some speculation that a Supercharger may be going in at the little town of Comber, ON just off Hwy 401 near Windsor and that a second is going in at Woodstock, ON. Not sure if London is still in the cards.

Isn't that kind of close together?

 

[mibaro2]

I agree. I'm planning a trip along the Toronto - Quebec corridor for next summer. Curiously, the one missing piece is a SC in Detroit. It's 175mi from London to Toledo, or 200mi from London to Jackson. You'd think Tesla would therefore plan a SC in Detroit or Windsor. But there's no mention of it on Tesla SC map, at least up through 2015.

A SC in Windsor would certainly help us getting into the U.S. Last time I went to Chicago, I had to sleep over in Windsor while my car charged overnight. From Windsor, getting to Angola or Maumee is easy, and then the U.S. SC are well placed.

 

[mknox]

Isn't that kind of close together?

It's about 115 miles, but I would actually prefer to see something closer to London. You would still need the Comber site for those heading to Windsor/Detroit, but it would then be even closer. The reason for London is that is where the 402 spits off towards Sarnia/Port Huron.

- - - Updated - - -

A SC in Windsor would certainly help us getting into the U.S. Last time I went to Chicago, I had to sleep over in Windsor while my car charged overnight. From Windsor, getting to Angola or Maumee is easy, and then the U.S. SC are well placed.

Yep. Same here. It kind of pisses me off that we've had to wait so long for Canada's busiest transportation corridor to get covered when the friggin' rest of the world seems to have no problems getting these things in.

 

[Jgdixon]

Here is an update I received today from the SC team.
John
Thanks for the note. We are glad to see Kingston into construction and look forward to enabling Toronto to Montreal. Barrie, Comber, and Woodstock are all with their respective municipalities for approval. The cold weather is something we’re cognizant of and we are using expedited paths to ensure construction begins as quickly as possible.

Barrie will likely be the next site entering construction in Eastern Canada. Our plans are with the City for final approval, and we already have a contractor selected. Any local owner support here is welcomed as the review has taken longer than expected.

As discussed previously, Comber has a long zoning and permitting timeline and requires approval from the Ministry of Transportation. The City has been very responsive so far, and we remain hopeful that opening by end of year is achievable.

Woodstock is nearly through Zoning and Permitting. Depending on how long the Barrie review takes, Woodstock could break ground on a similar schedule.

Buffalo, NY just received a unanimous Zoning approval and is moving onto a Permitting review before breaking ground. Buffalo will be accompanied by several other sites east along I-90 making travel to Florida possible down I-95 via I-89 or I-87.

Feel free to share these updates with the club,
Sara

- - - Updated - - -

Here is an update I received today from the SC team.
John
Thanks for the note. We are glad to see Kingston into construction and look forward to enabling Toronto to Montreal. Barrie, Comber, and Woodstock are all with their respective municipalities for approval. The cold weather is something we’re cognizant of and we are using expedited paths to ensure construction begins as quickly as possible.

Barrie will likely be the next site entering construction in Eastern Canada. Our plans are with the City for final approval, and we already have a contractor selected. Any local owner support here is welcomed as the review has taken longer than expected.

As discussed previously, Comber has a long zoning and permitting timeline and requires approval from the Ministry of Transportation. The City has been very responsive so far, and we remain hopeful that opening by end of year is achievable.

Woodstock is nearly through Zoning and Permitting. Depending on how long the Barrie review takes, Woodstock could break ground on a similar schedule.

Buffalo, NY just received a unanimous Zoning approval and is moving onto a Permitting review before breaking ground. Buffalo will be accompanied by several other sites east along I-90 making travel to Florida possible down I-95 via I-89 or I-87.

Feel free to share these updates with the club,
Sara

 

[hingisfan]

Here is an update I received today from the SC team.
John
Thanks for the note. We are glad to see Kingston into construction and look forward to enabling Toronto to Montreal. Barrie, Comber, and Woodstock are all with their respective municipalities for approval. The cold weather is something we’re cognizant of and we are using expedited paths to ensure construction begins as quickly as possible.

Barrie will likely be the next site entering construction in Eastern Canada. Our plans are with the City for final approval, and we already have a contractor selected. Any local owner support here is welcomed as the review has taken longer than expected.

As discussed previously, Comber has a long zoning and permitting timeline and requires approval from the Ministry of Transportation. The City has been very responsive so far, and we remain hopeful that opening by end of year is achievable.

Woodstock is nearly through Zoning and Permitting. Depending on how long the Barrie review takes, Woodstock could break ground on a similar schedule.

Buffalo, NY just received a unanimous Zoning approval and is moving onto a Permitting review before breaking ground. Buffalo will be accompanied by several other sites east along I-90 making travel to Florida possible down I-95 via I-89 or I-87.

Feel free to share these updates with the club,
Sara

Sounds good....I would still love to see another one roughly halfway between Kingston and Toronto though. There's no way a 60 makes it in bad winter conditions.

 

[iKhalid]

Sounds good....I would still love to see another one roughly halfway between Kingston and Toronto though. There's no way a 60 makes it in bad winter conditions.

I guess it is possible if you drive at 90km/h and your car is already heated by the supercharger.

 

[KenN]

We don't know he incoming voltage from the street. For all we know it is 13800V...or 27600V to the primary of the transformer. If this is the case it will only require use of one of the conduits. The other may be used for communication.

It may already be dropped to 600 for the shopping center. The supercharger site will likely be fed 600 from there. Tesla would be required to supply the 600-480 drop.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is some info from the Kingston plans referenced earlier:

View attachment 63099

View attachment 63100

Of note:

1. The Canadian Utility is providing a 480 Volt transformer.
2. There is a 4 inch conduit from the transformer to the Distribution Center (service equipment).
3. 3 inch conduits are used from the Distribution Center to each Supercharger Cabinet.
4. Not shown here, but the cable bundle from the Supercharger Cabinet to each Supercharger Pedestal (charging post) is in a 3 inch conduit.

None of the conduits shown look like they are 3 or 4 inches in size. Although it looks shallow for a Medium Voltage (distribution) feed to the Utility Transformer, that is what these conduits seem to be.

Note that the text says "proposed" 480/277 transformer by utility. I doubt very much that the service voltage will be anything other than 600. Canadian utilities typically won't provide a 480 service to anything other than legacy sites that still have 480 already. While I Ontario might make the odd exception (but I doubly doubt it), I know here in BC it just won't fly. Hence the dual transformers at Squamish and Hope. A drop to 600 for the BCH service (utility supplied) plus a 600 - 480 Tesla supplied xformer.

 

[Forty Creek]

I guess it is possible if you drive at 90km/h and your car is already heated by the supercharger.

Even if you are one of the Hamilton / Stoney Creek / Grimsby 85 owners, you will be biting your nails to Kingston in the winter. Of course you could pull off in Toronto after only 80kms or so of driving and fight your way down to the Lawrence charger. I too support another charger in between Toronto and Kingston. Cobourg would be ideal IMHO. I totally understand why the other locations mentioned above are now a priority (bare bones east & western connections), but as many others have pointed out, there is some back-filling needed before our range concerns truly disappear.

 

[iKhalid]

Even if you are one of the Hamilton / Stoney Creek / Grimsby 85 owners, you will be biting your nails to Kingston in the winter. Of course you could pull off in Toronto after only 80kms or so of driving and fight your way down to the Lawrence charger. I too support another charger in between Toronto and Kingston. Cobourg would be ideal IMHO. I totally understand why the other locations mentioned above are now a priority (bare bones east & western connections), but as many others have pointed out, there is some back-filling needed before our range concerns truly disappear.

I was referring to the distance between the two superchargers: Toronto and Kingston.
Let's have the main ones now and we can wait and think of the secondary ones later

 

[sitter_k]

I was referring to the distance between the two superchargers: Toronto and Kingston.
Let's have the main ones now and we can wait and think of the secondary ones later

My office at dixie and 401 would be a great location