Do you regret buying (or not buying) FSD?

[Dan203]

I would have NEVER purchased ANY “promised” service if I leased the vehicle.

Exactly. So I had to look at what it can do right now and decide if that alone was worth $80/mo. I decided it wasn't so I passed. If they really do come out with some revolutionary new update that enables true full self driving I always have the option to buy it outright. (although I probably still wouldn't on a lease)

 

[tomas]

I answered “other” because you did not have “too soon to tell” as an option. I mean really!!! How can any of us know if we got our money’s worth (or missed a deal) until we know:

A) what’s in it
B) when we get it
C) how well it works

Until then, I feel this is all emotional conjecture. We ALL knew it was a bet on future features. They aren’t here yet. How can we evaluate?

 

[Dan203]

I answered “other” because you did not have “too soon to tell” as an option. I mean really!!! How can any of us know if we got our money’s worth (or missed a deal) until we know:

A) what’s in it
B) when we get it
C) how well it works

Until then, I feel this is all emotional conjecture. We ALL knew it was a bet on future features. They aren’t here yet. How can we evaluate?

This thread was started almost a year ago. If you bought FSD in early 2018 would you feel like it's improved enough in the last year and a half to be worth it? If you extrapolate that progress out do you think they'll get to a point where you'll feel it's worth it within the time frame that you plan to own the car?

I think most people who bought early on are disappointed because they expected it to be further along by now. If you only plan to keep the car for 3-4 years and you're 1.5 years in and it's barely made any progress at all you start to wonder if you made the right choice.

 

[SalisburySam]

Voted that I was happy with my FSD purchase, and I am...sorta but with caveats. I bought the EAP/FSD $8k combo meal included at delivery in July 2018. I knew FSD wasn’t extant at the time, but I did expect FSD-ish features to become available as they were developed and delivered over the next several months to a year. With FSD, I’d get whatever was to come. That was my thinking at the time. In my almost 14 months of ownership Levels 4 and 5 seem further away, not closer. Since purchase, there have been some pluses and some minuses. On the plus side, I’m promised an upgraded computer at some point, probably worth a good hunk of the FSD money I paid. Also some functionality has been reclassified from EAP to FSD, and I have those features so I’m pleased.

And then there are the minuses: I really believed then that the higher levels of automated driving were a lot closer in time than they are. Based solely on my experience with my Model 3, I can’t see Levels 4 or 5 as near-term in any sense of the phrase. Secondly, several EAP-ish things really don’t work all that well for me. I loathe the still-prevalent phantom braking in software 2019.28.3.1 and consequently don’t use TACC at all with passengers in the car. Summon only worked for me when I first got the car on 2018.24.8 firmware. Two updates later, Summon became the Pinball Wizard for me: deaf, dumb, and blind and it hasn’t worked for me since. I’ve RTFM many times and tried all the recommended ways to initiate self parking, but the only single time I’ve seen the “P” was when I was in 3 lanes of traffic all stopped for a light, not ever when I’m trying to actually park. Nothing for parallel nor perpendicular. Navigate on AutoPilot is not bad but hardly dependable even for transitions from one Interstate to another. Works about 60% of the time, but doesn’t work 40%...and when it doesn’t work, it really doesn’t work.

All that aside, I’m still kinda okay with purchasing FSD, but given my basic cruise control function that scares the crap out of fellow vehicle occupants, I don’t see benefitting much from that purchase anytime soon. My first vehicle with basic cruise control was a 1967 Pontiac. The cruise didn’t maintain a set speed all that well, especially on even small hills, but I don’t ever recall the nasty passenger exclamations that I get in the Model 3 with TACC when it decides to hard brake (>30mph drop in speed) for no apparent reason. Surprisingly, my 87-year-old mom was especially colorful in her choice of comments. My wife on the other hand calmly and simply states that either TACC isn’t used with her in it or the car will be traded in. And as most of us learned when we were children, when momma ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy.

 

[daniel]

I don’t think that swapping of the computer was a surprise. They were designing that new computer years ago for replacement.

Yet, when I bought my car, Musk was saying that it had "all the necessary hardware" to be a robotaxi and drive itself with nobody in it, pending development and approval of the software. I'm not complaining, because I didn't believe it even then, and I bought the car for what it could do then, and I'm as happy as a clam with it.

Musk over-promises. I don't believe it's malicious or a money-grab. I think he really believes that he can keep those promises. I've said this before: If he was not such an extreme (one might say unrealistic) optimist, he never would have gotten involved with Tesla and we would not have electric cars today. Because without Tesla, none of the other car makers would have gotten into it.

But it's a case of buyer beware: Don't take Musk's promises at face value. Buy the car for what it can do when you buy it. OTA updates will make improvements (EAP works much better now than when I bought the car) but don't expect these cars to drive themselves any time while you still own the car. That's coming, maybe in ten years. As someone else suggested way upthread, or maybe it was in a different thread, put those two or five or eleven (whatever) thousand dollars into TSLA stock instead, because once they achieve real FSD, that stock will be worth more than enough to pay for the upgrade.

 

[Dan203]

Voted that I was happy with my FSD purchase, and I am...sorta but with caveats. I bought the EAP/FSD $8k combo meal included at delivery in July 2018. I knew FSD wasn’t extant at the time, but I did expect FSD-ish features to become available as they were developed and delivered over the next several months to a year. With FSD, I’d get whatever was to come. That was my thinking at the time. In my almost 14 months of ownership Levels 4 and 5 seem further away, not closer. Since purchase, there have been some pluses and some minuses. On the plus side, I’m promised an upgraded computer at some point, probably worth a good hunk of the FSD money I paid. Also some functionality has been reclassified from EAP to FSD, and I have those features so I’m pleased.

And then there are the minuses: I really believed then that the higher levels of automated driving were a lot closer in time than they are. Based solely on my experience with my Model 3, I can’t see Levels 4 or 5 as near-term in any sense of the phrase. Secondly, several EAP-ish things really don’t work all that well for me. I loathe the still-prevalent phantom braking in software 2019.28.3.1 and consequently don’t use TACC at all with passengers in the car. Summon only worked for me when I first got the car on 2018.24.8 firmware. Two updates later, Summon became the Pinball Wizard for me: deaf, dumb, and blind and it hasn’t worked for me since. I’ve RTFM many times and tried all the recommended ways to initiate self parking, but the only single time I’ve seen the “P” was when I was in 3 lanes of traffic all stopped for a light, not ever when I’m trying to actually park. Nothing for parallel nor perpendicular. Navigate on AutoPilot is not bad but hardly dependable even for transitions from one Interstate to another. Works about 60% of the time, but doesn’t work 40%...and when it doesn’t work, it really doesn’t work.

All that aside, I’m still kinda okay with purchasing FSD, but given my basic cruise control function that scares the crap out of fellow vehicle occupants, I don’t see benefitting much from that purchase anytime soon. My first vehicle with basic cruise control was a 1967 Pontiac. The cruise didn’t maintain a set speed all that well, especially on even small hills, but I don’t ever recall the nasty passenger exclamations that I get in the Model 3 with TACC when it decides to hard brake (>30mph drop in speed) for no apparent reason. Surprisingly, my 87-year-old mom was especially colorful in her choice of comments. My wife on the other hand calmly and simply states that either TACC isn’t used with her in it or the car will be traded in. And as most of us learned when we were children, when momma ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy.

That sucks to hear about cruise control. I use it a lot. In my current car I have the automatic cruise control where it maintains the speed and it can be a little wonky when cars change lanes in front of me or get over into a turn lane and slow down, but for the most part it works well. If the Tesla doesn't work at least as well, or have an option to just use standard cruise control, then I'll be disappointed.

 

[SO16]

Yet, when I bought my car, Musk was saying that it had "all the necessary hardware" to be a robotaxi and drive itself with nobody in it, pending development and approval of the software. I'm not complaining, because I didn't believe it even then, and I bought the car for what it could do then, and I'm as happy as a clam with it.

Musk over-promises. I don't believe it's malicious or a money-grab. I think he really believes that he can keep those promises. I've said this before: If he was not such an extreme (one might say unrealistic) optimist, he never would have gotten involved with Tesla and we would not have electric cars today. Because without Tesla, none of the other car makers would have gotten into it.

But it's a case of buyer beware: Don't take Musk's promises at face value. Buy the car for what it can do when you buy it. OTA updates will make improvements (EAP works much better now than when I bought the car) but don't expect these cars to drive themselves any time while you still own the car. That's coming, maybe in ten years. As someone else suggested way upthread, or maybe it was in a different thread, put those two or five or eleven (whatever) thousand dollars into TSLA stock instead, because once they achieve real FSD, that stock will be worth more than enough to pay for the upgrade.

Yes...I really wish Elon would do the following:

1. Not be so “matter of fact” when making statements about future items. His time estimates are often poor. And unfortunately that’s what people focus on instead of all the good he’s done.

2. Actually not even talk about ANY product/feature until it’s actually ready to ship. (Other then maybe a vehicle unveiling).

 

[SO16]

That sucks to hear about cruise control. I use it a lot. In my current car I have the automatic cruise control where it maintains the speed and it can be a little wonky when cars change lanes in front of me or get over into a turn lane and slow down, but for the most part it works well. If the Tesla doesn't work at least as well, or have an option to just use standard cruise control, then I'll be disappointed.

I don’t use the auto park or summon. I mainly just use lane keeping and TACC. Those work pretty good but it does need to have good lines on the road.

 

[tomas]

This thread was started almost a year ago. If you bought FSD in early 2018 would you feel like it's improved enough in the last year and a half to be worth it? If you extrapolate that progress out do you think they'll get to a point where you'll feel it's worth it within the time frame that you plan to own the car?

I think most people who bought early on are disappointed because they expected it to be further along by now. If you only plan to keep the car for 3-4 years and you're 1.5 years in and it's barely made any progress at all you start to wonder if you made the right choice.

Well, I did not buy FSD initially at $5k or whatever it was in September 2018 since I had EAP. I threw the dice on the $2,000 to buy up to FSD during one of the “last chance” discounts because that was a more reasonable gamble for me. I suspect just the computer upgrade will be worth it, but I expect more over the 8-10 years I will keep car.

 

[OCR1]

We purchased EAP and later FSD on our first Model 3 but decided to skip it on our second one. I not much of a “regrets” person but we rarely use any of the features on the car that has it. I just prefer to drive the car myself.

 

[dave999z]

I’ll be happy with FSD if/when I see a HW3 upgrade that makes my EAP functions actually work. I don’t expect that to happen within the next year at best. All the other FSD features are vaporware and I doubt will be operational while I own this car. So no I’m not thrilled with FSD. But when i bought there was just EAP/FSD, so I bought EAP. Then added FSD (probably stupidly) during the sale. If I were buying now and it already came with standard autopilot, no chance would I pay all that $ for FSD.

 

[SammichLover]

For those who have paid for FSD, do you regret your decision? If Tesla offered to refund your money and treat your car as plain EAP would you take the money?

For those who did not buy FSD at the time of purchase, do you wish you had taken advantage of the lower price? If Tesla gave you a week now to buy the FSD package for what it would have cost when you bought the car (considering that we still don't know what features that package will actually include, or when they will come, or whether true full self-driving will come to this car or not) would you buy the package now?

To answer my own questions: I did not buy FSD. I would not buy it now even if they lowered the price back to the $3,000 it was when I ordered my car. But I might buy it in the future if it reaches level 3 (eyes off the road) on a wide enough range of road types. I'll buy features that are available, if I like them enough. I won't pay for features that are hoped for in the future.

If I've done this right, the poll will remain open indefinitely and you can change your choice at any time. (Unless TMC has a maximum time for polls to remain open.) Answers are private. You can identify yourself in the responses if you like.

I paid $2000 and for now I'm HODL. I've not seen value from it. Since I had EAP already, I think that's obvious why? Nor do I feel particularly concerned I'll never see that value, and wouldn't ask for the $2000 back today if offered it. This will probably change over time, in one direction way or the other, as time passes and features I care about appear or don't appear. There's going to be little middle ground given the relatively small amount of money, one good feature and I'm happy.

Now EAP itself, I'm 100% happy with the $5000 I spent on that. Deal of the Century. Basically from the start last fall when it had less functionality and less robustness than now.

 

[Az_Rael]

I have HW 2.0 and FSD which will get me the new AP computer. So......in the end, does it matter....at all? No.

Now if they came back and said “sorry, your car can’t be upgraded to FSD” and didn’t refund my FSD purchase, that would be bad.

Guess I was hoping for some FSD features or at least the hardware upgrade before my warranty ran out. But it’s looking like I will get the hardware upgrade either right as my warranty runs out or shortly afterwards. Hope they aren’t too unreliable at first, and if they are, that they aren’t too expensive to replace out of pocket.

I will have to ask what the warranty on the chip is if they replace it after my warranty is over.

 

[SammichLover]

Guess I was hoping for some FSD features or at least the hardware upgrade before my warranty ran out. But it’s looking like I will get the hardware upgrade either right as my warranty runs out or shortly afterwards. Hope they aren’t too unreliable at first, and if they are, that they aren’t too expensive to replace out of pocket.

I will have to ask what the warranty on the chip is if they replace it after my warranty is over.

This I do have a concern with if they don't cover the new part somehow. I've only got 8K and change miles left, I'll almost certainly run out by end of 2019.

 

[afadeev]

Prices definitely change. But at least next time I will get a better car for less. Can’t say that about many other manufacturers.

I can.
Every car I ever purchased was appreciably better than the same (or similar) one it replaced.
From any and all manufacturers.
I strongly suspect the same will hold for Tesla.

Other car manufacturers hide price changes behind dealers. They lower prices but don't change MSRP and dealers just get as much as they can for the car.

Not usually the case.
Typically, as a model ages, the OEM throws in more "optional" items into the "base" package. MSRP doesn't budge much, if at all, on the base model, but you get more bang for your buck with more features that would have cost extra earlier in the model cycle.

I prefer the way Tesla does it for sure. I don't want to deal with some scam dealership that's trying to trick me into paying more for the car then I should.

I used to agree with the above sentiment 100%, and even signed petitions to help Tesla change laws and open direct-to-consumer sales model.
But now that I had bought the car and need to have minor issues resolved with it under warranty, I wish I had paid an extra $500-$1,000 in dealer overhead, and had a competent dealer's service department to lean on for help.

Tesla's after service is a total disgrace, mismanaged from the top.
A few local service managers brake the corporate rules in an attempt to help out the customers. If you find one that helps you out - tip them royally!

I would have NEVER purchased ANY “promised” service if I leased the vehicle.

FSD is a “promised” service, right?
Yet you said earlier that you fell for it, so which was is it?

a

 

[SO16]

Every car I ever purchased was appreciably better than the same (or similar) one it replaced.

Of course most new model year vehicles improve over time. But I stated “for less”. IE “less expensive”.

 

[SO16]

FSD is a “promised” service, right?
Yet you said earlier that you fell for it, so which was is it?

1. I didn’t “fall” for anything. I didn’t have any AP features so I purchased the whole thing for 5K. If I still don’t have FSD features by the time I no longer have my car, the deal was still cheaper than had I purchased base AP at my time of delivery.

2. And most importantly, I said “if I LEASED” the vehicle. I own my vehicle.

 

[SO16]

You sound like someone who doesn’t mind paying more for things. Don’t need to buy things on sale and can buy everything at full price.

LOL....people that actually KNOW me, would say the exact opposite.

All I meant was that yes, I got a good deal on the full AP package for 5k but I haven’t received “good deals” in other areas in regards to my Tesla purchase.

I don’t “LIKE” paying more just for fun. But I also paid what I was willing to pay at the time. If I really wanted a good price, I would not have purchased new. In fact, my Tesla was the first car I ever purchased new.

I do agree that Elon should not have said the price is going up on X date. That is bad....and dumb. I wish he’d stop doing that. But I also wish CEOs of other companies would stop lying about their vehicle emissions and related health issues. So....pick your poison.

 

[justacarimo]

It’s funny - Tesla initially offered a very well priced Enhanced Autopilot with TACC, lane keep assist, NOAP with or without lane change assist, summon, and assisted park - for $5000 at the time of purchase. Even then, a FSD pre-purchase (I think it was $6000) was available for additional money; except it would come with nothing other than a receipt for the future. If you didn’t buy any of these upgrades, your Tesla would come with basic cruise control.

As the year went by, it seems like Tesla slowly removed the bottom four features from the Enhanced Autopilot and put them under FSD to be able to offer something for those who are pre-purchasing it, and reduced the price of Autopilot pre-purchase (now only consisting of TACC and lane keep assist) from $5000 to $3000. FSD still steadily showed $6000.

And then the final act was to kill Autopilot package altogether and make it a standard feature and reduce the price of the car slightly to make FSD even more lucrative - despite the most important fact that absolutely nothing net new has been created for FSD that was never once offered under Enhanced Autopilot.

And yet, somehow this company has managed to get people to pre-purchase a very dubious feature consistently for $6000 or so. It’s quite impressive that we are able to trust this company that much.

I don’t think most of us would pay non-Tesla brands our hard earned money for a pipe dream.

That said, I didn’t buy the FSD as I have the Enhanced Autopilot already and I am not impressed by NOAP and Assisted Park as it is given the bugs, but do find lane keep assist very useful and the summon useful on rare occasions. TACC is meh as several other cars have that already these days.

Not regretting as I am not sure what paying whatever reduced amount would get me that I don’t currently have that I can use right away.

 

[Knightshade]

It’s funny - Tesla initially offered a very well priced Enhanced Autopilot with TACC, lane keep assist, NOAP with or without lane change assist, summon, and assisted park - for $5000 at the time of purchase. Even then, a FSD pre-purchase (I think it was $6000) was available for additional money; except it would come with nothing other than a receipt for the future. If you didn’t buy any of these upgrades, your Tesla would come with basic cruise control.

As the year went by, it seems like Tesla slowly removed the bottom four features from the Enhanced Autopilot and put them under FSD to be able to offer something for those who are pre-purchasing it, and reduced the price of Autopilot pre-purchase (now only consisting of TACC and lane keep assist) from $5000 to $3000. FSD still steadily showed $6000. And then the final act was to kill Autopilot package altogether and make it a standard feature and reduce the price of the car slightly to make FSD even more lucrative

The above is largely incorrect.


Tesla originally (and by that I mean 2016 when they killed AP1 and introduced AP2) sold EAP for $5000 (and it includes all current, active, AP-related features)

They also offered FSD (promise of future features- specifically flat out Level 5 driving) for $3000 more (not 6 as you suggest)

(both prices pre-purchase, post purchase were a bit higher.)

Nothing there really changed at all for 2 years after that. $8000 all-in for everything pre-purchase, more after.


Then roughly late 2018 they kept EAP as is, but took FSD "off menu" meaning you had to specifically ask for it to get it, it was no longer an option in the online configurator, but you COULD still get it- same price even.

Then end of Feb 2019 they made the one major change to the lineup they've made at all (as opposed to the "slow removal of features" you suggest)....

EAP no longer was sold, nor was the old "we promise you level 5 FSD"...which, to remind you, cost $8000 total pre-purchase.


Instead you could buy "basic" autopilot which was just TACC and auto-steer in a single lane...for $3000... and "new" FSD, which gave you all the other existing features that used to come in EAP... plus the promise of... a MUCH more limited set of future features... specifically enhanced summon (which EAP owners will get too)... and stoplight/stopsign recognition and local drive on nav (which they won't) by end of this year... and then "more" later.

Notice this was still $8000 total, and again it cost more post-purchase than that.

They've played around with pricing a little since then...(including the ill-fated, later-admitted-mistake, of reducing FSD for late-adopters that only lasted a week or two) and eventually they just made "basic" AP free on most trims, while raising (not lowering as you suggest) the price of the cars- essentially making it a "forced" option on everything except the off-menu cars (LR RWD and SR at the time)


In any event it leaves an interesting dichotomy... Pre-March-2019 buyers who went all in have so far gotten 0 extra functionality for their roughly $8000.... but they are promised real L5 driving for their money. Post-March-2019 buyers who did the same immediately got significant functionality (auto lane change, nav on AP, auto-park, summon, etc) but are promised a much narrowed future feature set... (Tesla still kind of IMPLIES they'll get some sort of L5, but it's not in the actual FSD description like it used to be pre-March-19 change)