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Discussion : All discussion regarding Model 3 and Tax credit in model 3 subforum
- Thread starter mapman
- Start date
point Wheels
Member
may be difficult to move production of the LFP batteries from China to the US in the next 3 months, but I believe he will do something about the Model 3 Long Range to bring it under the $ cap. If there are challenges about the battery pack for the LR Model 3, he may be able to start using the 4680 cells produced in Texas.
E90alex
Active Member
It would be impossible to simply “move production” of LFP cells to the US in 3 years much less 3 months. They don’t have any existing factory here that is made to build LFP cells. In fact they don’t have a factory anywhere that makes LFP cells. They buy them from other companies.
4680 would require a complete chassis re-engineer because it’s a structural pack that needs front and rear castings. The model 3 still does not have any single piece castings. So no, they can’t just simply use 4680s.
Also Tesla has no real incentive to bring the 3LR into eligibility for the tax credit. It’s extra money in Tesla’s pocket if people pick a 3P over a 3LR because of the tax credit. It makes people choose the car that is more profitable for them.
3LR is under the $55k vehicle cap (as are all 3 and Y variants). The issue is Chinese content in the cells.
Tesla is reportedly in talks with CATL to buy their existing surplus LFP equipment and install it at GF1
Tesla to Open LFP Battery Plant in US with CATL Equipment: Report
A 4680 pack doesn't have to be structural... Supposedly Tesla has scrapped the whole Model Y AWD 4680 battery pack production line. So they would have to make something new.
E90alex
Active Member
While technically true that the cells can be put into any type of pack, Teslas 4680 was always intended to be structural due to the extra thick shell.
It’s 1cm taller than 2170 so it’s not going to fit in existing 3/Y without major modifications. That major modification was the structural Y AWD pack which provided them extra space since it let the top of the pack become the floor pan of the car.
I supposed you can turn 4680 sideways to create a non structural pack with it but it would be highly space inefficient.
MagnusMako
Member
GigaTexas was built in less than a year, with Y's being pumped out 1.5 years from construction. To think Tesla couldn't build another battery cell line in less than 3 years seems like it would be under-estimating what they are capable of.
pdx_m3s
Active Member
I’ve always wondered if an LFP 4680 was possible, or if there’s something unique about LFP that mandates it be prismatic form factor.
E90alex
Active Member
LFP has very poor energy density even with prismatic cells. Cylindrical cells would be even worse so it doesn’t make sense
It can, but LFP is inherently more stable and needs less thermal management so cylindrical is overkill and prismatic offers higher density.
MidwestM3P
Member
Model 3 Performance in Ultra Red now no longer qualifies for the $7,500 tax credit after the $1,000 price hike today. Lame. Should have just ordered it over the weekend. Now I'm stuck getting black, not interested in the other colors. 
dhrivnak
Active Member
If impossible how does the Model 3 performance qualify. They should be able to use the same pack as the performance.
Sure, they could, but that would likely mean making fewer Model Ys. (And they make more money on the Model Y than on the Model 3.)
E90alex
Active Member
It’s a strategic decision not to.
They are reserving Panasonic packs that are tax credit eligible for the Model Y which is a better seller and more profitable than Model 3. They are probably production constrained and can’t make enough Panasonic packs to fully satisfy both 3 and Y volume.
Model 3 RWD/LR tax credit ineligibility further pushes customers towards a more profitable Y since Model Y RWD and Model Y LR are both cheaper after tax credit than the respective Model 3 versions.
They could have used the same LG pack in the Performance but I suspect it would have made the official range similar to or less than the 272 mi of the RWD which kind of makes them look bad.
Its hard to sift through 34 pages here as I know the question has probably been asked - has anyone had luck getting Tesla to take the $7500 tax credit and use it as a rebate on the front end? I know other car companies do this with their EVs that qualify. Because Tesla doesn't have the dealer model, I wasn't sure if they do it as well.
pdx_m3s
Active Member
Yea, but it's not a rebate (implying reduction in sales price); rather, it acts as additional down payment.
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