Did Elon Musk lie to us?

[Wolverinegeoff]

That seems a little hard to do with the 'one screen/two screen' difference, but I guess all the elements that you are controlling are *somewhere* still, lol...

True! I wonder if they will be doing some level of UI standardization with the AP2.0 S's and the new 3's, since they are running the same hardware for the UI (PX2). Wouldn't make sense to keep using the old control units for the UI on the S's when they have such a good built-in one with the Nvidia chipset. Would help *somewhat* with the control knobs or buttons needing to control something. Also might be harder to integrate any sort of manually telescoping wheel (if they decide to have this ability when you are in FSD mode) into an S/X with the different dash designs.

 

[EV-lutioin]

Not unless you think your iPad makes you an astronaut.

Believe it or not, this is the current spaceship control panel used in Soyuz spaceships to take astronauts to the ISS. So, I guess an iPad could be considered an upgrade.

 

[alseTrick]

Believe it or not, this is the current spaceship control panel used in Soyuz spaceships to take astronauts to the ISS. So, I guess an iPad could be considered an upgrade. View attachment 223165

It looks like two iPads and a bunch a buttons.

I've also heard Russian space tech is years behind the Americans. Which makes sense since most Russian assets go towards assassinating Putin's opposition.

 

[flamingoezz]

Why would they need a reveal in july for a car that is testing on the road for months and will have had every nook and cranny photographed? it doesn't make sense that WYSIWYG

 

[Big-T]

Ok I know this might be better in the model S thread, but over on Electrek they reported that the price of the S75 dropped by $7,500 to $69,500 (Just $1,500 more than the old S60).

First it's, HEY EVERYONE S60 IS GOING AWAY GET IT NOW!
Then it's HEY EVERYONE THE MODEL 3 IS TOTAL GARBAGE, I WON'T BE DRIVING ONE WHEN IT COMES OUT, GET YOUR S60 NOW!!
Now it's - Oh did you order an S60? If you waited a little while you could have gotten an S75 for just an extra $1,500 bucks not $9,000 like we told you last week, enjoy your new S60!!

This just leaves me with an unpleasant taste, it's the kind of junk I brace myself for whenever I head to a regular dealership.

 

[JeffK]

Ok I know this might be better in the model S thread, but over on Electrek they reported that the price of the S75 dropped by $7,500 to $69,500 (Just $1,500 more than the old S60).

First it's, HEY EVERYONE S60 IS GOING AWAY GET IT NOW!
Then it's HEY EVERYONE THE MODEL 3 IS TOTAL GARBAGE, I WON'T BE DRIVING ONE WHEN IT COMES OUT, GET YOUR S60 NOW!!
Now it's - Oh did you order an S60? If you waited a little while you could have gotten an S75 for just an extra $1,500 bucks not $9,000 like we told you last week, enjoy your new S60!!

This just leaves me with an unpleasant taste, it's the kind of junk I brace myself for whenever I head to a regular dealership.

but they made the upgrade to 75 only $2000 I thought I read so if anyone was in that situation it'd be ok.

... unless you bought the 75 and then you'd be kicking yourself.

 

[shrspeedblade]

Ok I know this might be better in the model S thread, but over on Electrek they reported that the price of the S75 dropped by $7,500 to $69,500 (Just $1,500 more than the old S60).

This just leaves me with an unpleasant taste, it's the kind of junk I brace myself for whenever I head to a regular dealership.

Except at a dealership, every single person who walks through the door pays a different price depending on day of the month/incentives that day/type of trade-in/negotiating skills/inventory/sales manager's mood/planetary alignment/etc. I'm not saying there isn't room for frustration, but there is still a big difference. I know the day I decide to buy no one got a "better" deal than me due to one of the above factors.

Somebody somewhere will always have gotten a better deal than you. Always. You just have to accept that fact, be happy with what you have, and move on or you'll drive yourself crazy. (And I'm a ninja-skills deal hound too, so this is said based on hard won experience!)

 

[dsvick]

If you waited a little while you could have gotten an S75 for just an extra $1,500 bucks not $9,000 like we told you last week, enjoy your new S60!!

This just leaves me with an unpleasant taste, it's the kind of junk I brace myself for whenever I head to a regular dealership.

They have to draw the line somewhere? This is the same thing as when they started including the new AP hardware. Some people fell on one side of the line others fell on the other - it happens, it will always happen.

Some people will argue that Tesla could have made the announcement that it was coming and listed a cut off date. That would have just made everyone that had already placed and confirmed their order unhappy - "Why didn't Tesla announce this yesterday? I would have waited a day."

 

[AnxietyRanger]

They have to draw the line somewhere? This is the same thing as when they started including the new AP hardware. Some people fell on one side of the line others fell on the other - it happens, it will always happen.

Some people will argue that Tesla could have made the announcement that it was coming and listed a cut off date. That would have just made everyone that had already placed and confirmed their order unhappy - "Why didn't Tesla announce this yesterday? I would have waited a day."

The challenge - from a customer perspective - with Tesla isn't really what they do, it is partly why they do it and mostly how often they do it.

Tesla pays quarterly games, often times many times a quarter, to maximize their sales and deliveries within a quarter. That creates a rather random environment for the buyer, where changes can not be either negotiated or predicted. Much more so than within the traditional automotive buying environment. I have had more much stress with my two Tesla purchases than with any ICE before that. I would take a dealership and a manufacturer with traditional annual/bi-annual product changes over this any day of the week...

 

[gregincal]

The challenge - from a customer perspective - with Tesla isn't really what they do, it is partly why they do it and mostly how often they do it.

Tesla pays quarterly games, often times many times a quarter, to maximize their sales and deliveries within a quarter. That creates a rather random environment for the buyer, where changes can not be either negotiated or predicted. Much more so than within the traditional automotive buying environment. I have had more much stress with my two Tesla purchases than with any ICE before that. I would take a dealership and a manufacturer with traditional annual/bi-annual product changes over this any day of the week...

Yeah, like other manufacturers don't constantly change lease deals, incentives, hidden spiffs and other things to manage demand for cars. They might not change the MSRP, but that's because the MSRP is meaningless. Personally I far prefer the Tesla model.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yeah, like other manufacturers don't constantly change lease deals, incentives, hidden spiffs and other things to manage demand for cars. They might not change the MSRP, but that's because the MSRP is meaningless. Personally I far prefer the Tesla model.

Other manufactures do offer deals, but they change their products much, much less often. I know intimately the change schedules and history of several German premiums, for example, and Tesla is completely off the charts there.

Also, with dealerships, negotiating personal deals is possible, diminishing risks. With Tesla it is bureucratic global policies for everything, limiting any chance of lessening the stormy weathers through localized solutions.

Buying a Tesla is much more stressful than any other car, if you wish to predict what features/price you get vs. what is available at the time you order and soon afterwards. Other brands are simply much more predictable.

Don't take this too hard. Tesla has other upsides going for them, but obviously this is a downside for those customers who care about buying the latest. Buying the latest Audi or latest iPhone is much much easier, without it getting old before you get it or soon after you get it, than buying the latest Tesla.

That's simply a downside of the Tesla model.

 

[Topher]

If you care more about what other people get, than you do about what you get, innovative technology isn't for you. I hear fire is good.

Thank you kindly.

 

[dsvick]

Other manufactures do offer deals, but they change their products much, much less often. I know intimately the change schedules and history of several German premiums, for example, and Tesla is completely off the charts there.

Why is that a problem when the majority of the changes are beneficial and end up enhancing the car and purchasing power? Because some people who are on the other side of the change miss out? Well that happens just about everywhere else, with the auto industry being an exception.

Also, with dealerships, negotiating personal deals is possible, diminishing risks. With Tesla it is bureucratic global policies for everything, limiting any chance of lessening the stormy weathers through localized solutions.

Having to negotiate for what I think is a fair price for a vehicle and then wondering if I got it, is not, in my mind, a plus. I greatly prefer the Tesla model, if you don't think the price is worth it, you don't buy it. I don't need to spend any time researching what a proper price should be, or playing the " let me talk to my manager" games at the dealer.

If you are happy with the price you paid and the features you received why would that change if they announce a change shortly after you purchased? That doesn't affect what you received or what you paid. Sure, maybe you could have gotten more value for the money but you could say that about almost anything, if you want to wait around forever because of the fear that they'll change something you'll never make the purchase.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If you care more about what other people get, than you do about what you get, innovative technology isn't for you. I hear fire is good.

Thank you kindly.

That sounds like a fallacy to me. There are better and worse times to buy into technology. Not all times and outcomes are equal. That is why people who care research and pay attention. With Tesla it is harder to determine a better time.

It is not about what others are getting, it is about being able to optimize your own purchase and experience within the framework of what is possible.

Everyone knows when to buy an iPhone, for example. Much harder with a Tesla.

Not all customers care, of course. None of this applies to them.

 

[gregincal]

All I know is my experience was the opposite of yours. My Tesla purchase was far and away the least stressful car purchase I have ever had.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Why is that a problem when the majority of the changes are beneficial and end up enhancing the car and purchasing power? Because some people who are on the other side of the change miss out? Well that happens just about everywhere else, with the auto industry being an exception.

The frequency of changes is the main thing - there are so many relative to how long the car delivery takes and how rarely one buys a car, that the chances of missing out are higher than usual on a Tesla. That, I'd say is one of the biggest ones.

Having to negotiate for what I think is a fair price for a vehicle and then wondering if I got it, is not, in my mind, a plus. I greatly prefer the Tesla model, if you don't think the price is worth it, you don't buy it. I don't need to spend any time researching what a proper price should be, or playing the " let me talk to my manager" games at the dealer.

I don't like playing games either, but with Tesla the local game had just been replaced with a global one. Finding the right time to buy a Tesla to get a fair price is very hard as people e.g. upgrading Model S 60D's to 75D at $9,500 are learning... and there are few if any local remedies available for a store to appease a disappointed customer...

If you are happy with the price you paid and the features you received why would that change if they announce a change shortly after you purchased? That doesn't affect what you received or what you paid. Sure, maybe you could have gotten more value for the money but you could say that about almost anything, if you want to wait around forever because of the fear that they'll change something you'll never make the purchase.

Indeed, it is that loss of relative value that is the key here. Many people (not all but many) certainly would prefer to optimize their purchases to get the best features, best value etc. and finding that difficult or disappointing can lead to issues.

You are not incorrect when you say sometimes never buying in may be wiser, though I understand you don't mean that. I often half jokingly say that of Tesla. The chances of things changing (for better or for worse) before you even get your car are that high with a Tesla that in a way it is better to never pull the trigger, but constantly wait.

With an iPhone you know when to buy one.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

All I know is my experience was the opposite of yours. My Tesla purchase was far and away the least stressful car purchase I have ever had.

I wouldn"t wish a bad experience for anyone so I am glad to hear that.

I find knowing when to buy useful and from that perspective IMO buying Tesla is hard.

From other perspectives buying a Tesla can certainly be easier than competition, even I agree.

 

[AustinPowers]

At this point that is the interpretation I am leaning towards. It makes a lot of sense: no one drives a spaceship with a steering wheel.

I don't think Elon should take the spaceship-likeness too far, after all he'd have to lose the seatbelts as well. Or did you see Jean-Luc ever wearing one? (Except for the Nemesis outtake of course )

 

[ikjadoon]

That sounds like a fallacy to me. There are better and worse times to buy into technology. Not all times and outcomes are equal. That is why people who care research and pay attention. With Tesla it is harder to determine a better time.

It is not about what others are getting, it is about being able to optimize your own purchase and experience within the framework of what is possible.

Everyone knows when to buy an iPhone, for example. Much harder with a Tesla.

Not all customers care, of course. None of this applies to them.

Then one could treat it like every other technology purchase ever: wait until you need it. That is, when the "costs of waiting" outweigh the benefits of waiting.

That way, you maximize your benefit. Once you need to buy, you have no other choice but to buy.

And then, you'll know you did the best you possibly could in your situation. Because one thing is virtually guaranteed: technology is going to get better.

 

[Matias]

Hiding until the final reveal is more likely. He said previously they may make modifications to the car as late as July which was partially his reasoning for the July final reveal. It kills two birds with one stone... It delays the reveal until after Q2 and it gives a small window for employee feedback for quick modifications.

How could you start mass production in July if you were still making final tweaks in design in June?