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Devastating attacks in Paris, hostages taken ahead of COP21 climate talks
- Thread starter Ktowntslafan
- Start date
After Paris Attacks, Tenor of COP21 Climate Talks Might Change
http://www.newsweek.com/cop21-paris-attacks-climate-talks-security-395012
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Manuel Valls says COP21 will be “reduced to the negotiation”, casting doubt on a series of side events including mass climate march
http://www.climatechangenews.com/2015/11/16/paris-climate-summit-to-be-pared-back-says-france-pm/
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
Paris Climate March canceled because of the terrorist attack. Police cannot guarantee the safety after the terrorist attack.
Paris Climate March Is Canceled Over Security Concerns | InsideClimate News
Paris Climate March Is Canceled Over Security Concerns | InsideClimate News
Paris Climate March Is Canceled Over Security Concerns
Paris Climate March Is Canceled Over Security Concerns | InsideClimate News
To your point (worthy of consideration, imo):
Marc Morano, a climate change skeptic who runs the Climate Depot blog, scoffed at the movement’s “lamenting the shift in focus from climate to actual threats like terrorism.”
“They are desperately trying to link ‘global warming’ to terrorism or come up with conspiracy theories on how Big Oil interests may be behind the terror attacks,” Mr. Morano said in an email. “The climate activists are now trying to rebrand the U.N. climate summit as some sort of ‘peace summit’ where addressing ‘global warming’ will somehow solve terrorism and civil wars.”
Mr. Morano, whose film “Climate Hustle” is slated to premiere in Paris during the summit, called it “nothing short of bonkers to think that a U.N. climate summit could help reduce terrorism or improve world peace.”
Paris attacks threaten climate message, cancel COP21 march, frustrate activists - Washington Times
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Note: This is no longer the case. This pointer has been removed. Other (older) seem to be intact.
Bill Nye Explains The Connection Between Climate Change And Terrorism In Paris
"This is just the start of things."
Bill Nye Explains The Connection Between Climate Change And Terrorism In Paris
Wow, that is quite a stretch. Climate change leads to water shortages, leads to youth migrating to urban centers, leads to overpopulation in those centers, leads to unemployment, leads to youth more easily recruited by terrorist organizations.
The claim that ISIS recruitment is stronger in urban areas is not terribly well supported by the evidence. Furthermore, most of the water shortages in Syria are because ISIS shut off the flow of water to the primarily Shia populated south of Syria. Additionally, to the extent that ISIS thrives in a poor economy, urbanization is the least of Syria's problems in that arena. I like Bill Nye, but this is a pretty silly claim for him to make.
The claim that ISIS recruitment is stronger in urban areas is not terribly well supported by the evidence. Furthermore, most of the water shortages in Syria are because ISIS shut off the flow of water to the primarily Shia populated south of Syria. Additionally, to the extent that ISIS thrives in a poor economy, urbanization is the least of Syria's problems in that arena. I like Bill Nye, but this is a pretty silly claim for him to make.
I'm no expert, but Bill Nye certainly is, which made me think of this GREAT video:
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Climate Change Debate (HBO) - YouTube
There are credible people suggesting there is a link between climate change and terrorism. I think it's important that we keep an open mind and consider what that link may (or may not) be.
Please may we keep the discussion respectful.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
??? How did ISIS cut off water to farmers before ISIS controlled that territory? Time traveling terrorists? The water shortages that Nye is referring to is the drought that caused the crop failures. Before the civil war started and before ISIS was in control of large parts of Syria.
I think the problem here is that people are conflating explaining with excusing. The attacks in Paris were inexcusable... but from a pragmatic perspective it's important we understand the factors that led up to them to find ways to reduce future risk. What happened in Paris is almost as closely linked to our fossil fuel addiction as lung cancer is to smoking.
- ISIS would be a shadow of itself if the Syrian government had not lost control of most of Syria.
- The Syrian government would not have lost control if not for the severe drought that decimated the region.
- The severity of the drought cannot be explained without the effects of AGW.
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If the Obama administration hadn't supported the Syrian rebels against a democratically elected government, the Syrian government would be able to sort out ISIS in their own country.
We also wouldn't have millions of refugees coming to Europe for safety.
He is Bush 2.0.
We also wouldn't have millions of refugees coming to Europe for safety.
He is Bush 2.0.
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nwdiver
Well-Known Member
WOW; That's the most factually inaccurate sentence I've read in a while.
- Obama failed to support the rebels...
- Just because someone gives themselves the title of 'President' doesn't mean they're democratically elected. Syria is not a democracy. The Assad family has controlled Syria since 1971.
Fair enough, but ISIS predates the drought. I don't think many people would list it as a leading proximal cause of the rise of ISIS. I'd put the Iraq invasion, Assad's direct support, the Arab Spring, Assad's foolish policies during the Damascus Spring in 2000, brutal human rights violations, the US/UN Sanctions starting in 2003, even the Sykes-Picot Agreement and the fact that Assad is a terrible leader far above the drought. The drought didn't help, but the Syrian economy was a shambles way before that.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
This goes back to the 'fire triangle' analogy I've used before. To get a fire you need oxygen, fuel and heat. To get a brutal and powerful group like ISIS or Al Qaeda you need (at minimum) a fundamentalist ideology, $$$ and a government power vacuum. The drought was like the final spark. That spark would have been meaningless without the other items you mentioned... but equally... Assads' tyrannical regime and Syrias poor economy would likely have limped along if not for the drought.
The point that the DOD is getting to in their 2014 QDR is the AGW exacerbated weather extremes are going to be significant stress on already teetering societies. Things will continue to get worse until we fix the core issue of climate change. Solving our fossil fuel addiction isn't going to solve terrorism or extremism... just like banning tobacco products isn't going to eliminate lung cancer. But, failing to solve the problem will certainly make things worse.
flankspeed8
Member
How does Bill Nye explain all of these people that are leaving the west to go and sneak into Syria to fight for and with ISIS? What kind of global warming are they trying to escape? The answer. None. They are drivin by a certain radical Islamic ideal. Lets please not rationalize, legitimize or justify terrorism in any way.
I will believe this bizarre theory when I start seeing Alaskan Inuit's blowing up WalMarts or Synagogues. Pathetic...
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Fuel, Oxygen and Heat; completely separate and unrelated... combined you have the conditions where fire can exist. Eliminate 1 and fire cannot exist.
Certain radical Islamic ideal, $$$, Civil Unrest caused by drought driven famine; completely separate and unrelated... combined you have the conditions where ISIS can exist. Eliminate 1 and ISIS is severely weakened.
Let's please understand the preconditions that allow violent extremism to fester so we can work to reduce these events in the future.
. Without AGW the drought would not have been nearly as severe as it was;
. If the drought had been less severe the Syrian people would have been very unlikely to revolt;
. ISIS gained the majority of it's strength in the Syrian civil war giving it global reach;
. ISIS is responsible for the attacks in Paris.
None of these is even remotely contested; connect the dots.
The second assertion is the weak one. There is no evidence that Syria would not have had revolution without the drought. The closest your link comes to saying that is "There’s some evidence that the migration fueled the civil war there" which doesn't quite support your claim. The Kurds have been more or less in a state of revolution for a decade and were relatively unaffected by the drought. Like Tunisia and Eqypt, the conditions that sparked the calls for regime change had been building up for a long time (and there are other despotic rulers in the region that would have 0 chance of winning democratic elections and who are at least potentially vulnerable to the same fate).
I'm OK with an assertion that the drought made conditions worse and helped to foster revolution, but to claim it was a necessary precondition is simply unsupported by the evidence.
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