Devastating attacks in Paris, hostages taken ahead of COP21 climate talks

[TEUNTSLA]

When I opened this post seeing 5 pages of thread, I was looking forward to reading some educated insight about this event. The forum spans the world and hearing everyone's opinions amongst a group of a common Interest, Tesla, Is why I am on this site. sure its a car forum, but lets not pigeon hole ourselves when it comes to these events. The point I came to make is that I cant believe we are arguing about the location of the post rather than just discussing the event which is a tragedy and certainly news. Get your heads out of your ass, have a look at what's going on around you and lets all bond together in times like these rather than perpetuating further disagreements. ISIS/ISIL and terrorists alike want to see disruption and chaos, we cant let them have that, we need to to remain level headed and maintain a common bond.

 

[nwdiver]

I don't know why you keep peddling the climate change connection. There isn't one, IS couldn't give a rats a$$ about climate change. If they were targeting that they would have done it during the event. These people aren't that smart btw, it doesn't take much upstairs to run into a bar and pull a trigger or press a button.

There's actually a pretty strong link between ISIS and AGW; Although you are correct that IS 'couldn't give a rats a$$' about AGW.

If ISIS is a cancer then climate change is cigarettes; Time to quit the fossil fuel habit.

The most dangerous component to a changing climate won't be severe weather... it's going to be refugees and political destabilization.

 

[stopcrazypp]

When I opened this post seeing 5 pages of thread, I was looking forward to reading some educated insight about this event. The forum spans the world and hearing everyone's opinions amongst a group of a common Interest, Tesla, Is why I am on this site. sure its a car forum, but lets not pigeon hole ourselves when it comes to these events. The point I came to make is that I cant believe we are arguing about the location of the post rather than just discussing the event which is a tragedy and certainly news. Get your heads out of your ass, have a look at what's going on around you and lets all bond together in times like these rather than perpetuating further disagreements. ISIS/ISIL and terrorists alike want to see disruption and chaos, we cant let them have that, we need to to remain level headed and maintain a common bond.

This is no longer about the location of the post, as it is clear it will stay in Off Topic, but about how the OP is continually trying to connect this to COP21, which just muddied the waters as to the true causes. If the terrorist goal was to attack the leaders or halt the conference, why would they do the attack half a month in advance to give security forces early warning? Also when I go to Google news about the event none of the headlines mention COP21, only if I deliberately use that as a keyword do I find articles mentioning it.
I think the discussion should move on and discuss the possible real motivations in a rational way.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

I don't know why you keep peddling the climate change connection. There isn't one, IS couldn't give a rats a$$ about climate change. If they were targeting that they would have done it during the event. These people aren't that smart btw, it doesn't take much upstairs to run into a bar and pull a trigger or press a button.

If COP21 is undermined or cancelled because of these attacks, is there a connection between the two events?

Paris attacks scramble climate summit plans POLITICO

That is the connection I'm "peddling" (could you chose a more demeaning word?).

This thread is so off point, apologies to everyone. Mod can we just delete the whole thing?

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Luckily the Climate Conference will take place in Paris anyway.

Paris Attacks Wont Deter Coming Climate Talks, Officials Say | ThinkProgress

 

[Doug_G]

Mod Note: While we recognize that people will want to discuss this horrendous event, TMC is not really a good place for this. Please try to keep your discussions relevant to the possible impact on the climate change talks. Thanks.

 

[Electric700]

Disagree. It has been a real military action with many terrorists hitting Paris in many places. It caused hundreds of victims. Not only a terrorist action but also a military action very well organized. To me this is an action of war that could be related to the Climate Conference.

To your point, the Pope released a new Encyclical covering global warming June 18th, 2015 and on the same day, this terrible tragedy occurred (first one at the top):

This Morning from CBS News, June 18, 2015 - CBS News

Some extreme groups derive part or all of their income from the sale of fossil fuels. That income will vanish when everyone switches to EVs along with green energy sources such as solar and wind power.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

Some extreme groups derive part or all of their income from the sale of fossil fuels. That income will vanish when everyone switches to EVs along with green energy sources such as solar and wind power.

Agree. In particular I read that ISIS gets money from the sale of oil. So the Climate Change issue is only one of the reasons to get rid of oil very soon.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

I should clarify, what I mean is I doubt the attacks were made with the goal of shutting down the climate talks. I have no doubts the talks will be easily be rescheduled if necessary. The proximity of the two events are likely just a coincidence.

"Is it a coincidence that the terrorist outrage in Paris was committed weeks before COP21, the biggest climate conference since 2009? Perhaps, writes Oliver Tickell. But failure to reach a strong climate agreement now looks more probable. And that's an outcome that would suit ISIS - which makes $500m a year from oil sales - together with other oil producers."

Paris attacks - COP21 and the war on terror - The Ecologist

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Mod Note: Please try to keep your discussions relevant to the possible impact on the climate change talks. Thanks.

Mod, Thank-you.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

If COP21 is undermined or cancelled because of these attacks, is there a connection between the two events?

This thread is so off point, apologies to everyone. Mod can we just delete the whole thing?

OK, if we aren't deleting this entire thread, then I'm determined to turn this back into an intelligent, positive and compassionate discussion. So, are the attacks undermining COP21? I say yes:

"Green groups re-think massive Paris climate march after attacks"

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/11/15/france-shootings-climatechange-idINL8N13A0W620151115

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"Called off:

All European Rugby Champions Cup and Challenge Cup matches in France at the weekend were postponed.
Iranian president Hassan Rouhani cancelled his visit to France, where he was due to meet the president, François Hollande, on Sunday.

U2 cancelled their concerts at Bercy in Paris on Saturday and Sunday, but the band went to Bataclan to pay their respects to victims.
Motörhead cancelled their Sunday concert at the Zenith concert hall in Paris. US rock act Marilyn Manson called off a show at the same venue scheduled for Monday.
Foo Fighters have cancelled the rest of their European tour. The band were due to perform in Paris on Monday and in Casalecchio Di Reno, Italy, on Friday.
The Jewish Federation of France postponed the Sunday launch of its annual charity appeal. The Maccabi centre cancelled a martial arts programme on Sunday. The Cultural and University Jewish Space of Europe suspended all activities until further notice.
Film distributor Mars cancelled promotional appearances for the film Jane Got a Gun starring Natalie Portman, who was to appear at the film’s premiere on Monday in Paris.
A Sunday photoshoot for the film Bridge of Spies – where Steven Spielberg, Mark Rylance and Amy Ryan were scheduled to appear – was cancelled by Twentieth Century Fox."

Paris attack: which events have been cancelled and which are going ahead? | World news | The Guardian

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Really good:

"The most urgent need for the planet is to end half measures, political cowardice and demagoguery. We must be firm and very clear in the fight against terrorism, against radicalization and the indoctrination of our youth. We must especially emphasize the cynicism of some heads of state who will attend the COP21 to enjoy political soundbites while they are the very ones who support those who seek to destroy life in every part of the world. These countries are adding petrol to the fire."

Protecting the environment is fighting for a safe environment | Voices | The Independent

 

[bonnie]

ktown, I don't think anyone is arguing that a variety of events have been negatively impacted by this tragedy. But many of us don't believe they were targeting a specific event.

I can't help but believe that if disrupting the climate talks was the goal, then this tragedy would have unfolded right before or during the talks.

It was the Saturday night before Bastille Day, a time sure to get max people out on the streets. I suspect that played into it, but really doesn't matter the reason. There is no reason.

 

[Lloyd]

Also it was Friday the 13th . In the Christian calendar that is the day that the Knights Templar were arrested and held and arrested for various crimes in 1307.

From Wiki: On October 13, 1307, a day so infamous that Friday the 13th would become a synonym for ill fortune, officers of King Philip IV of France carried out mass arrests in a well-coordinated dawn raid that left several thousand Templars — knights, sergeants, priests, and serving brethren — in chains, charged with heresy, blasphemy, various obscenities, and homosexual practices. None of these charges was ever proven, even in France — and the Order was found innocent elsewhere — but in the seven years following the arrests, hundreds of Templars suffered excruciating tortures intended to force "confessions," and more than a hundred died under torture or were executed by burning at the stake.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

ktown, I don't think anyone is arguing that a variety of events have been negatively impacted by this tragedy. But many of us don't believe they were targeting a specific event.

I can't help but believe that if disrupting the climate talks was the goal, then this tragedy would have unfolded right before or during the talks.

It was the Saturday night before Bastille Day, a time sure to get max people out on the streets. I suspect that played into it, but really doesn't matter the reason. There is no reason.

bonnie, with all due respect, as I know you are well respected on TMC:

I never asserted that COP21 (or any event) was the target. Others made the inference for me...and even more ran with that supposition, but please re-read all my posts to be certain, I was taken out of context.

Disrupting COP21 climate talks may or may not have been the goal of the perpetrators. That's not really the point of this thread.

The point of this thread was to connect TMC'ers who were affected by the events and to sympathize with their horrific reality in that moment.

Unfortunately, the inverse occurred. My sincerest apologies to anyone who clicked here looking for support.

Note: It was Friday night, not Sat...

 

[bonnie]

bonnie, with all due respect, as I know you are well respected on TMC:

I never asserted that COP21 (or any event) was the target. Others have made the inference for me, and even more ran with that supposition, but please re-read all my posts to be certain, I was take out of context.

Disrupting COP21 climate talks may or may not have been the goal of the perpetrators. That's not really the point of this post.

The point of this post was to connect with TMC'ers who were affected by the events and to sympathize with their horrific reality in that moment.

Unfortunately, this thread has turned out to be anything but inclusive and sympathetic.

Note: It was Friday night, not Sat...

You're right, it was Friday night. I misstyped. Yesterday was Bastille Day. So the night before.

I apologize if I've misunderstood your intent with the posts - but surely you can understand why when you look at all the posts.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

I apologize if I've misunderstood your intent with the posts - but surely you can understand why when you look at all the posts.

Yes...all the more reason to review. I would appreciate if you did.

Thanks for your quick reply. It means a lot.

 

[bonnie]

Yes...all the more reason to review. I would appreciate if you did.

Thanks for your quick reply. It means a lot.

I did review - and I don't think it would do any good to do a line by line 'this is why I thought what I did' response. You've already stated that wasn't your intent.

 

[Ktowntslafan]

I did review

Merci!

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Now if I may move this thread forward in a positive way (This headline is what it's all about...and what I felt was at risk as OP):

A Successful Climate Change Conference Is The Best Response To ISIS Brutality

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/corinne-lepage/the-support-and-success-o_b_8569602.html

 

[JenniferQ]

You're right, it was Friday night. I misstyped. Yesterday was Bastille Day. So the night before.

I apologize if I've misunderstood your intent with the posts - but surely you can understand why when you look at all the posts.

I always thought Bastille Day was in July? Usually after our 4th. Just searched and it says July 14 for Bastille Day. Been there a few times at that time. Is this a different celebration perhaps?

 

[bonnie]

I always thought Bastille Day was in July? Usually after our 4th. Just searched and it says July 14 for Bastille Day. Been there a few times at that time. Is this a different celebration perhaps?

Oh god, I'm so wrong. Apologies! And don't tell my adoptive French family. Please. I'd never hear the end of it.

 

[JenniferQ]

Oh god, I'm so wrong. Apologies! And don't tell my adoptive French family. Please. I'd never hear the end of it.

Your secret is safe here on the forum!