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Depressing trend in EV's..
- Thread starter RSpanner
- Start date
Tam
Well-Known Member
The infrastructure needs to be robust.
.More DC Fast Chargers than the number of Gas Stations.
.Street parking chargers are available for those who don't have access to a garage or an electrical outlet.
.Every parking space should have a Fast or Slow charger. This would be great for airports, workplaces, and schools...
Single charging standard. NACS everywhere.
Apartment complexes providing overnight charging.
And then people just need the experience of using an electric vehicle. I think most people "just don't get it", and aren't interested in spending their money to find out. If some manufacturers were willing to long term loan EVs to people in different demographics who could share their experiences in real time or in conversation with their peers you might see more sales.
It blows my mind there aren't more commuters driving EVs. There are some specific circumstances that I really can't fathom. Conway Arkansas electric rate is $0.06/kWh, and about 10,000 people commute 60 miles round trip from Conway to Little Rock 5 days a week. Holy crap that's an ideal condition for literally every EV on the market. You could do that charging on 15A outlet - no special installation at home.
Apartment complexes providing overnight charging.
And then people just need the experience of using an electric vehicle. I think most people "just don't get it", and aren't interested in spending their money to find out. If some manufacturers were willing to long term loan EVs to people in different demographics who could share their experiences in real time or in conversation with their peers you might see more sales.
It blows my mind there aren't more commuters driving EVs. There are some specific circumstances that I really can't fathom. Conway Arkansas electric rate is $0.06/kWh, and about 10,000 people commute 60 miles round trip from Conway to Little Rock 5 days a week. Holy crap that's an ideal condition for literally every EV on the market. You could do that charging on 15A outlet - no special installation at home.
The biggest no is amongst people with low incomes. That's the most telling problem, and one that has always needed to be solved (directly and indirectly) by the cost of EVs falling.
gtae07
Member
Yes, costs are still out of reach of most people. And not just purchase costs, but insurance and repair, and charger installation.
But it has to be done right. Just hand someone the keys and say "good luck!" (which is what seems to happen with a lot of rentals) and they're probably going to have a bad experience--triply so if they're renting at a destination (so relying on fast and public chargers instead of charging at home).
I've read several stories from folks on other (non EV focused) websites and their experiences driving a rental EV. They generally like how the car drives but the rest of the experience (especially the charging) completely turns them off, especially on non-Tesla vehicles. And yes, they were simply handed a key and off they went, no education, no orientation, no training on "here's how you plan a trip, charge, etc.". So they try to drive it like a car they're familiar with and it bites them. And I'd bet that's the experience a lot of people have even if they buy one--no real training, just off you go. And that's why you see those people charging to 100% on fast chargers and following the ICE model of "fill up every few days" even when they can charge at home.
I think you'd be really hard pressed to be getting 60mi a day off a 5-15 outlet unless you were driving an Aptera or something. Realistically about 30 mi/day is all you could expect, assuming it's not cold and you're wasting all that power just keeping the battery warm. It's not a solution for most working people no matter what someone says the "average" is, because plenty of people drive more than the average and/or don't have a lot of time to charge at home (in my case, I'm only home 8-9 hours a day and drive 70-80 miles/day during the week).
Not really (at this point anyway). If the approach turns from carrot (tax breaks, incentives) to sticks (ICE production bans) then yes you will see a lot of pushback, especially if the other factors hampering adoption (cost, charging, and inconvenience*) are not addressed first. But any kind of effort (real or perceived) to push a change that way will be met with some pushback; people really don't like being forced to do something even if it's something they'd otherwise do willingly.
* The key to acceptance (besides cost) is going to be minimizing the inconvenience. An EV is super convenient if you have a reasonable daily commute, if you can reliably charge enough at home (or where you park) every night including on trips, and if you rarely/never tow long distances.
But if charging for daily driving means having to regularly take the car somewhere else (whether you're sitting and waiting, or doing shopping etc) and you have to build your family's schedule around charging the car, it's a pain. If you need to get an L2 charger installed in order to reasonably charge at home, it's a (potentially really expensive) additional nickel-and-dime cost. If you're charging on L1 and have to constantly keep the car plugged in and charging all the time and you're sweating whether it'll keep up (and you can't "just" go hit a fast charger, because there aren't any in a 30 mile radius), it's a pain.
Traveling can be inconvenient--not so much along the trip (assuming you travel by interstate anyway), but when you get there if you can't charge where you're parked for the night. Again, you wind up having to plan a lot of stuff (your daily schedule, where you stay, etc) around the needs of the car. It irritates us when we go visit my wife's parents; L1 charging at their house can't even keep up with our usual driving around up there so I wind up having to use the public Chargepoint station a mile away. I'd rather stay at my parents' place 15 minutes away with a 14-50 available, but we have to be fair and split our visits.
Towing can be a real pain if you have to keep unhooking to charge and you're stopping a lot. Probably not a factor for most, but a big area of concern with some potential truck buyers.
Many here seem to forget that they are enthusiasts and therefore willing to tolerate a higher level of change/inconvenience in order to drive an EV, for whatever reason. Most people are not. If they perceive EVs as inconvenient expensive hassles, they aren't going to switch, no matter how much you try to tell them it's for their own good and no matter how much someone might try to convince them through the never-successful route of insulting, berating, belittling, and patronizing.
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Frankly I would not buy an EV right now if I couldn't put an L2 charger at home for a reasonable amount (e.g. not really long runs to the panel or having to upgrade the service). I was able to do so, so I did. It's hopefully unlikely but if we wind up having to move I'll probably sell the MY and go back to ICE until we're settled and buy a new house where I can add a charger.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Spot on !!!
France halts €100-a-month electric car leasing scheme after huge demand
Minister says scheme to help low-income households and cut emissions is ‘victim of its own success’
www.theguardian.com
It doesn't have to be an either/or thing. Why can't we just have a variety of propulsion types?
Looks like PHEV is seeing a resurgence. That's a good bridge auto-tech for those folks where personal home charging is not possible.
And yes cost is still a challenge. Exacerbated by high interest rates.
Perhaps the answer lies to the east for cheap EVs. But at what other cost? The demise of Detroit auto?
Looks like PHEV is seeing a resurgence. That's a good bridge auto-tech for those folks where personal home charging is not possible.
And yes cost is still a challenge. Exacerbated by high interest rates.
Perhaps the answer lies to the east for cheap EVs. But at what other cost? The demise of Detroit auto?
E90alex
Active Member
How’s that? They won’t be able to PLUG IN their PLUG IN hybrid at home so it defeats the entire purpose of a PHEV.
E90alex
Active Member
Not really. The whole selling point of a PHEV is plugging in at home so you can commute on electric but have gas for longer trips.
What’s the point of a PHEV if you only rely on public charging? Who’s going to plug in for a couple hours in public every day just for 30-40 miles of range? Ain’t nobody got time for that.
That’s a really crappy ownership experience and will just make people never plug in and never want a BEV.
What’s the point of a PHEV if you only rely on public charging? Who’s going to plug in for a couple hours in public every day just for 30-40 miles of range? Ain’t nobody got time for that.
That’s a really crappy ownership experience and will just make people never plug in and never want a BEV.
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