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Once it became clear that millions weren't going to die, it really f'ed with the mainstay lunatics here and they haven't been the same since.

Source? I’d love to see a quote from early in this thread. I’m leaving the specifications/caveats pretty open-ended in the hopes you’ll realize that finding such a quote is high probability, so you’ll actually put in the effort.

No one here thought millions would die in the United States. Not because it is not possible, though. You know this, I think.
 
...smugly confident about the dividing line between the good guys and the bad guys. Instead of an ultra complex world where everyone in a sense is jockeying for power and there are all kinds of Shades of Grey and all kinds of degrees of corruption within all kinds of groups that disturbing complexity about human vulnerability is replaced with a simple formula in which there is an absolute truth, and there are absolutely clear ways to distinguish Good and Evil.

So true, but strange to hear from the man who called me a lunatic for suggesting that the vaccine issue is not black-and-white, and that criticism of some aspects of vaccination should not be equated with rejection of all vaccination.

For example, vaccine is a product subject to quality-control problems, just like most products. And adding mercury (thimerosol) as a preservative is a bad idea, for the same reason that thimerosal is no longer allowed as a preservative in contact lens solutions.

But of course @dfwatt has put me on Ignore, so he will remain "smugly confident" in his debate-free bubble.
 
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Vitamin C.
1) I'm not aware of any medical authorities hotly fighting the idea of aspirin for cancer prevention. WebMD says the American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association now recommend low-dose aspirin only for high-risk heart patients because of the bleeding risk from aspirin, but the United States Preventive Services Task Force still recommends aspirin with fewer restrictions.
Low-Dose Aspirin Might Cut Cancer Risk

I agree with the greater restrictions of ACC and AHA -- it is yet another case of whoops that drug is more toxic than we thought. Aspirin is not a big moneymaker for the patent-medicine industry, but its recommendation reinforces their preferred public mindset of taking drugs for "health," instead of eating anti-inflammatory and blood-thinning foods.

If you want examples of resistance to alternative cancer therapies, I could post a huge list, but the sneering-gallery here might suffer aneurysms.

2) I'm not aware of medical authorities hotly fighting a non-surgical cure for heart disease. They just ignore it, and don't tell the public or doctors about it. The authorities are not dumb, and apparently are aware of the Streisand effect.

3) I think you meant "hopefully the same won't happen for Vit C." :)


Hah ah .. how quickly the sordid past of our respected institutions is forgotten .. This is about the aspirin wars .. for heart disease, cf the Heart disease wars re Dean Ornish, when anyone saying heart disease can be reversed and/ or cured without surgery was pooh poohed
Congress also tried, in the 90's, to reclassify all vitamins as drugs.. by prescription only - that one was defeated, pfft

Anyway re aspirin, just for kicks
Everyday Drug That Prevents Cancer Death - Life Extension


" ..
Back in 1983, the Life Extension Foundation® analyzed findings from published studies indicating that low-dose aspirin can reduce the risk of a heart attack by about 40%.68 Life Extension members were urged to take low-dose aspirin every day to protect against heart attacks.

The FDA and medical establishment were harshly critical of Life Extension’s recommendation, even though peer-reviewed scientific studies substantiated it. The FDA issued an edict that any company that promoted the sale of aspirin to prevent heart attacks would be subject to civil and criminal penalties. According to the FDA, making a health claim for aspirin turned it into an “unapproved drug.”

In response to the FDA’s censorship of health claims about aspirin, Life Extension developed a product called “First Amendment Aspirin.” On the label of this product was a quote from a published study indicating that aspirin reduces heart attack risk.

The FDA demanded that the sale of this product cease, but Life Extension refused, citing the First Amendment guarantee of free speech, i.e., the right to communicate that a published scientific study found that aspirin reduces heart attack risk. Realizing that they could not get around the US Constitution, the FDA went to the manufacturer of the product and demanded that they stop making “First Amendment Aspirin” or face intrusive daily inspections. The manufacturer capitulated and stopped making the product.

As new studies continued to verify aspirin’s cardioprotective effect, FDA rulings starting in 1998 allowed companies to advertise the cardiovascular benefits of aspirin on a very limited basis. The FDA added so much bureaucratic red tape about who the agency thinks should take aspirin that most people don’t find out they need it until it is too late.

It took the FDA 15 years to acknowledge what was clearly established in 1983 about aspirin’s ability to reduce heart attack risk. To this day, the FDA continues to censor what aspirin manufacturers are permitted to say about its effects in reducing cardiac and ischemic stroke events.

In preparing this article, we found studies indicating anti-cancer mechanisms of aspirin dating back to the year 1972,69-71 with significant human data published in 1991.72,73 The failure of the FDA to allow widespread promotion of low-dose aspirin for prevention has clearly resulted in millions of premature deaths. .."
 
Nice. We look forward to hearing about the results of your experiment. Make sure to rub up against people who are coughing hacking and feverish, but please don't visit parents or grandparents while you are busy proving that COVID-19 is just a deep state conspiracy to discredit the Stable Genius - you might not like the result.

Just one problem though . . . OM actually stands for Orange Moron
It's truly sad to see people in the terminal phase of OMBD. Were you able to get at-home OMBD hospice care or are you in a facility?
 
It's truly sad to see people in the terminal phase of OMBD. Were you able to get at-home OMBD hospice care or are you in a facility?

You are actually the one that is terminal. I can get you a discount on Haldol. I suspect it won't work however. We still expect results from your debunking of covid-19. See what you can come up with.

Seriously. It appears that since you have no facts on your side you have only innuendo and jokes. While I'm a big believer in jokes, ultimately it's still about the facts. So if you have no facts that support your arguments, please consider a free professional sample of Moron Spray. It's on me.
 
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Fairly sure a significant number of the anti-vaxxers would refuse vaccines even if they had seen smallpox and polio. We’ll see coming up in a year or so. Fairly sure very few of them will get a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine, even though by then probably over a quarter million people will have died in the US

In case you're interested in a non-black-and-white perspective...

I have never had a flu shot, and also never had the flu (in recent decades), because my immune system eats viruses for breakfast due to my natural diet and lifestyle (whole plant foods). Thousands dying from flu every year do not scare me into risking a mercury-preserved injection that I don't need.

I will not get a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine for the same reason, no matter how many poor victims with chronic diseases die from COVID-19. I don't need the vaccine, probably. And if I do somehow get COVID-19, I know how to cure it easily with vitamin C and other immune-boosting nutrients. Why should I risk injecting something rushed into production because of global panic and the accompanying gold rush for vaccine-makers?

I am not anti-vaxxer, just an appropriate-vaxxer.
 
Llama shots anyone?

Humans produce only one kind of antibody, made of two types of protein chains — heavy and light — that together form a Y shape. Heavy-chain proteins span the entire Y, while light-chain proteins touch only the Y’s arms. Llamas, on the other hand, produce two types of antibodies. One of those antibodies is similar in size and constitution to human antibodies. But the other is much smaller; it’s only about 25 percent the size of human antibodies. The llama’s antibody still forms a Y, but its arms are much shorter because it doesn’t have any light-chain proteins.

This more diminutive antibody can access tinier pockets and crevices on spike proteins — the proteins that allow viruses like the novel coronavirus to break into host cells and infect us — that human antibodies cannot. That can make it more effective in neutralizing viruses.
Hoping Llamas Will Become Coronavirus Heroes

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In case you're interested in a non-black-and-white perspective...

I have never had a flu shot, and also never had the flu (in recent decades), because my immune system eats viruses for breakfast due to my natural diet and lifestyle (whole plant foods). Thousands dying from flu every year do not scare me into risking a mercury-preserved injection that I don't need.

I will not get a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine for the same reason, no matter how many poor victims with chronic diseases die from COVID-19. I don't need the vaccine, probably. And if I do somehow get COVID-19, I know how to cure it easily with vitamin C and other immune-boosting nutrients. Why should I risk injecting something rushed into production because of global panic and the accompanying gold rush for vaccine-makers?

I am not anti-vaxxer, just an appropriate-vaxxer.
I think you're missing the #1, critical, super-important, only thing that matters point of vaccines. It's NOT about you!
 
upload_2020-5-8_12-22-40.png



Justin Wolfers on Twitter
 
I think you're missing the #1, critical, super-important, only thing that matters point of vaccines. It's NOT about you!

I'm not following you there. If I'm exposed to SARS-CoV-2, my immune system makes antibodies that help kill the virus, so I won't get sick or shed it to others.

If I inject a vaccine (and it works right, which some don't), my immune system makes antibodies that help kill the virus, so I won't get sick or shed it to others.

The end result is the same. The miracle of vaccines would be less necessary if the population was not so sick with nutrient deficiencies and chronic disease.

Edit: I read somewhere there is evidence that immunity stimulated by some vaccines is less effective as immunity stimulated by the actual pathogen. But I don't remember the source or whether is credible.
 
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I hope that was a joke and not a reflection on your ability to understand the methodology.

For the casual reader: the adverse risk of smoking is captured in other categories. Same thing for hypertension
Good point! But if I took up smoking now it would take a while to suffer those adverse effects. :p
I'm not actually going to take up smoking but if I was a smoker I would not quit until the pandemic is over.
 
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Good point! But if I took up smoking now it would take a while to suffer those adverse effects. :p
I'm not actually going to take up smoking but if I was a smoker I would not quit until the pandemic is over.

It might but it might not. It depends on the status of a whole bunch of hidden biological processes that we can't really index very easily including how much plaque you have in coronary arteries, how many rogue (precancerous) cells you have in your system that normally (optimally?) might not clear the various barriers against cancer all of a sudden now might survive in the context of your taking up smoking, whether or not you have borderline insulin sensitivity already, etc etc etc. In other words the pro-inflammatory effects of all that smoke and a passel of toxicities associated with it can manifest themselves reliably over a long time but unpredictably over a shorter interval.
 
I'm not following you there. If I'm exposed to SARS-CoV-2, my immune system makes antibodies that help kill the virus, so I won't get sick or shed it to others.

If I inject a vaccine (and it works right, which some don't), my immune system makes antibodies that help kill the virus, so I won't get sick or shed it to others.

The end result is the same. The miracle of vaccines would be less necessary if the population was not so sick with nutrient deficiencies and chronic disease.

Edit: I read somewhere there is evidence that immunity stimulated by some vaccines is less effective as immunity stimulated by the actual pathogen. But I don't remember the source or whether is credible.
So your immune system is so mind-bogglingly good that there's no period where the virus is multiplying in your body and shedding before an immune response is mounted? Damn. I need whatever you're taking!!
 
Tesla Fremont Factory To Reopen Today Afternoon, Emailed By Elon Musk To Employees


Elon said:
“In light of Governor Newsom’s statement earlier today approving manufacturing in California, we will aim to restart production in Fremont tomorrow afternoon.

I will be on the line personally helping wherever I can. However, if you feel uncomfortable coming back to work at this time, please do not feel obligated to do so. These are difficult times, so thanks very much for working hard to make Tesla successful! ”
 
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So your immune system is so mind-bogglingly good that there's no period where the virus is multiplying in your body and shedding before an immune response is mounted? Damn. I need whatever you're taking!!

An immune response is mounted immediately (non-specific response). As for shedding while the adaptive response is cooking up antibodies, I don't know. Do you have evidence that everybody sheds for a long period?

If so, I'll be very happy to expose myself to a sick person, then isolate myself for however long is required to stop shedding. And we don't know yet if the vaccine will provide immunity as effective and long-lasting as contact with the virus, right? So a vaccinated person might get a false sense of security about not infecting others.

Here's what I'm taking. You're welcome.
NutritionFacts.org | The Latest in Nutrition Related Research
 
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Huge study out of the UK looking at risk factors for death from COVID-19. They actually correct for prevalence in the population and correlations between all these factors.
Age is by far the biggest risk factor. Being male is also really bad.
Most surprising finding is that, even after correcting for all other (known) factors, all non-white ethnicities are at significantly higher risk (I would note that this may or may not be true in the US since the genetics of "white" people and "black" people are different than in the UK).
Simply being poor is a large factor as well, not sure why this would be.
Current smokers are at slightly lower risk (might take up smoking to calm my nerves!).
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.06.20092999v1.full.pdf
View attachment 539608

It has been hypothesized that poor people may be more vulnerable because they may live in denser areas and because they may not have the luxury of skipping work in unsafe conditions—grocery, delivery, big box stores—so “social distancing” may not be possible.
 
Hah ah .. how quickly the sordid past of our respected institutions is forgotten .. This is about the aspirin wars .. for heart disease, cf the Heart disease wars re Dean Ornish, when anyone saying heart disease can be reversed and/ or cured without surgery was pooh poohed
Congress also tried, in the 90's, to reclassify all vitamins as drugs.. by prescription only - that one was defeated, pfft

Anyway re aspirin, just for kicks
Everyday Drug That Prevents Cancer Death - Life Extension


" ..
Back in 1983, the Life Extension Foundation® analyzed findings from published studies indicating that low-dose aspirin can reduce the risk of a heart attack by about 40%.68 Life Extension members were urged to take low-dose aspirin every day to protect against heart attacks.

The FDA and medical establishment were harshly critical of Life Extension’s recommendation, even though peer-reviewed scientific studies substantiated it. The FDA issued an edict that any company that promoted the sale of aspirin to prevent heart attacks would be subject to civil and criminal penalties. According to the FDA, making a health claim for aspirin turned it into an “unapproved drug.”

In response to the FDA’s censorship of health claims about aspirin, Life Extension developed a product called “First Amendment Aspirin.” On the label of this product was a quote from a published study indicating that aspirin reduces heart attack risk.

The FDA demanded that the sale of this product cease, but Life Extension refused, citing the First Amendment guarantee of free speech, i.e., the right to communicate that a published scientific study found that aspirin reduces heart attack risk. Realizing that they could not get around the US Constitution, the FDA went to the manufacturer of the product and demanded that they stop making “First Amendment Aspirin” or face intrusive daily inspections. The manufacturer capitulated and stopped making the product.

As new studies continued to verify aspirin’s cardioprotective effect, FDA rulings starting in 1998 allowed companies to advertise the cardiovascular benefits of aspirin on a very limited basis. The FDA added so much bureaucratic red tape about who the agency thinks should take aspirin that most people don’t find out they need it until it is too late.

It took the FDA 15 years to acknowledge what was clearly established in 1983 about aspirin’s ability to reduce heart attack risk. To this day, the FDA continues to censor what aspirin manufacturers are permitted to say about its effects in reducing cardiac and ischemic stroke events.

In preparing this article, we found studies indicating anti-cancer mechanisms of aspirin dating back to the year 1972,69-71 with significant human data published in 1991.72,73 The failure of the FDA to allow widespread promotion of low-dose aspirin for prevention has clearly resulted in millions of premature deaths. .."

Daily Aspirin Fails as Primary Prevention in ARRIVE Trial

Latest results are shooting this whole ASA thing down. And daily lifetime ASA most definitely can have unwanted effects, even at low doses.

A major change for daily aspirin therapy - Harvard Health
 
Good point! But if I took up smoking now it would take a while to suffer those adverse effects. :p
I'm not actually going to take up smoking but if I was a smoker I would not quit until the pandemic is over.
I think that is a fair read of the stats but I am skeptical of the conclusion since I doubt there are even a handful of people studied that recently started smoking. In Stat talk, this study has no power to say anything about your theoretical choice.

The known physiological effects of acute tobacco use however would strongly argue that you should reconsider.
 
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