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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
linux-works
Active Member
"But Trump’s message seems to have resonated with his base: A Quinnipiac University poll released this week found that just 35 percent of Republicans are concerned about the virus, compared with 68 percent of Democrats."
using politics for personal gain - at the expense of the health and safety of millions - that should be a crime similar to treason. if committed intentionally by those who have massive power, the penalties should be equally massive.
political polarization is going to ruin us, truly. his idiots won't ever listen even if they see their own relatives die before them. they are really that blind.
I wish we could fix this, but as long as he's allowed to continue, we have no hope of getting the US on one page. we have zero leadership right now, and that's problem #1
I really hope he's gone in november. this isn't about the small things, anymore; its truly life and death and we can't just let the other side keep 'winning' (sigh). winning is killing us. I've had enough 'winning', thank you.
LN1_Casey
Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus
Given the average age range of the typical Trump base member, this is particularly bad for them.
To say nothing of the likely mortality rate for the entire Republican cabal including both Trump and Pence. A lot of obese white men with probable comorbidities. One would think some version of enlightened self-interest might be operative. But apparently not. Who was it that said an enlightened self-interest is the beginning of wisdom? If that's true it would appear that there is not much wisdom in that group unfortunately.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Yes, that is my point.
A couple of years ago clinicians decided to change the 'Sepsis' label to 'SIRS' -- systemic inflammatory response syndrome. No real objection from me, but the immune response tracks quite well with circulating bacterial cell wall LPS. Meaning SIRS tracks with septicemia. My ER friends would routinely tell me about patients that came in ill but stable and shortly after receiving antibiotics would crash. This was a flood of LPS. If you want to watch it in real time, just give Abx to a patient with a high load of spirochetes. You might know the clinical label for the phenomenon.
HOWEVER, with very, very few counter examples, clinical interventions designed to suppress the immune response lead to inferior outcomes. One of the more recent and widely published examples was using the blood product activated protein C (APC). No clinician in their right mind would administer TNF or IL-2 blockage to SIRS patients. The only prominent exception I can think of at the moment is the administration of steroids in severe pneumonia. It is in vogue these days but I am old enough to be wary of fashion medicine. The pendulum has been swinging back and forth on that one for decades but the clinical differences either way are small.
In general (but not always) the body does a find job modulating the immune response to be proportional to the infection, and the immune response is always a double-edged sword. However, it is quite rare for clinicians to do better when they decide to either rev up or down (or both at the same time) the natural response.
Back to basics: Covid-19 severe morbidity and mortality is mostly a disease heralded by existing co-morbidities. It should not surprise you that SIRS is poorly tolerated with clogged coronary arteries. Do you have any ICU experience ? Mine spans a couple of decades after I left academic medicine and I can tell you that co-morbidities sets the stage for the lion's share of severe infectious disease. Not all.
linux-works
Active Member
denial (not the river in egypt) is significant.
think 'religion' - how often do you see people change their minds on that subject?
it should be a crime to associate political parties with religion. they were smart to do that. smart and evil. they manipulate people at a very deep and primal level and that's why its nearly impossible to undo the mental damage.
education is key, but we have de-funded education and we even make fun of people who are intellectual, in this country. the magats revel in their ignorance, like a pig in you-know-what.
change is going to be very slow, if it even comes at all. the brain damage done to half our voting population has been too successful ;(
adiggs
Well-Known Member
This part I disagree with pretty strongly. When people know people that get sick and die from this, I see that as definitely moving the needle on what people think. For many it will get real at that point, and not a hoax.
I'll add that "his idiots" is a pretty good contribution to us/them rhetoric, and the polarization / division in the country.
Ok...but...is the "cure"...sorry poor attempt. Let's call it the "plan" worse that doing what we should always do (practice common sense hygiene)
Despair caused by long term job losses in flyover states led directly to the opioid epidemic that kills tens of thousands every year.
More people driving more so more fatalities on the road.
Suicide rates rising do to economic ruin.
I could go on.
linux-works
Active Member
its been said that trump could kill someone in cold blood, on video, and his fans would not see anything wrong with it.
the braincloud is too thick.
direct evidence is not enough to convince someone who has been convinced at the deepest level that everything the other guys want is bad and should be stopped.
this is not thinking. its emotion and even direct family death won't change their minds. they'll blame it on something else, or even the democrats (already been done).
no, they won't change their minds. not ever. most won't and that's the problem.
the braincloud is too thick.
direct evidence is not enough to convince someone who has been convinced at the deepest level that everything the other guys want is bad and should be stopped.
this is not thinking. its emotion and even direct family death won't change their minds. they'll blame it on something else, or even the democrats (already been done).
no, they won't change their minds. not ever. most won't and that's the problem.
linux-works
Active Member
BSAB is bull and you know it.
when a side is wrong, they are wrong. his followers are dangerous and wrong. full stop.
this isn't about two equally valid choices. BSAB is crap.
If you're going there, the top two Democratic presidential nominees look worse. Hopefully nothing happens to any of them.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Without some extremely robust data, I would not want to administer any kind of immunosuppressant to a patient infected with COVID-19. My gut instinct is that the harm would outweigh the benefits.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Anti-virals of the type you are thinking of do not have a glorious history in medicine. Never say never, but don't hold your breath. Zinc had its moment of popularity in the ICU setting but nowadays few care.
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I don't know how smart it is but certainly the appeal to a kind of primal tribalism is extremely powerful. We are an incredibly tribal species both in good and bad senses. The good side of tribalism gives us our wonderfully compelling Sports competitions which as long as we don't take them too seriously are a lot of fun, and we can feel like we belong intimately to a group of like-minded individuals. Tribalism certainly must underpin our genius for mass action and our amazing ability to form cohesive extremely large societies by virtue of those tribal identifications. Unfortunately it seems to also underpin when combined with dehumanization and demonization of adversaries our ability for mass evil including the worst forms of racism , religious Prejudice and even genocide.
I don't think it's brain damage but there is a kind of fog that comes with the worst forms of tribalism. The other side becomes dehumanized, demonized, and less and less an object of anything one could call sympathy or empathy. And we're all vulnerable to this. And although I share your dismay at how dehumanization has become major card in the Republican deck for manipulating particularly the poor and disenfranchised sections of our society, we will not rebuild the bridge to those folks by returning the favor. When I see people at Trump rallies I feel sorry for them, especially for how they do not see that they are being used. Sometimes I feel angry but mostly I just feel sad. As we approach the greatest crisis our species has ever confronted namely the catastrophic warming of the planet we seem to be devolving into increasingly militant tribal groups, and it's no coincidence that that tribalism is fueling the rise of authoritarian governments and the collapse of democracies all over the world. We must stop this in all its forms if we are going to have any luck at all turning the enormous Titanic of our technological civilization around. And it's unfortunately no coincidence that the people that Trump is manipulating in this country are likely to be the people who will pay the stiffest price going forward for the worst manifestations of climate change.
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
I'm probably, from a years of education standpoint, the most educated person you will probably ever meet. And I strongly identify as "Conservative" (not Republican).
You should be cautious in trying to ascribe labels to everyone, it beguiles your own lack of knowledge in certain areas.
linux-works
Active Member
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Neither of those are antivirals with any shown in vivo activity.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
No one has ever accused me of being humble. Direct, and to the point, absolutely.
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