Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[winfield100]

I might support Gen IV nuclear if/when it actually exists (If it's cost effective). Until then I support more wind turbines. I'm a huge supporter of things that actually make a difference by existing. Wind is currently the low cost champion of electricity. The new wind farm near my home is expected to produce electricity for <$20/MWh. Vogtle nuclear plant (if it's ever completed) will cost >$100/MWh....

only caution i see is
Wind turbine design - Wikipedia
as turbines get bigger, tip speeds rapidly increase
for example a turbine with 170 meter blades (Washington monument for US residents) would reach 400mph at 10 rpm and above linked article talks about 264 meter swept area )(bit over 110 meter blades plus hub and larger presently) tho i do like turbines

 

[SDRick]

Fix them?

*
I agree with SDRick.
I loathe the turbines.

Not to be picky but I never stated that I loath wind turbines. I did say that "charming" is not how I would describe them. Between the two, aesthetically, and for noise etc., I would prefer rooftop solar, especially Tesla's solar tile versions.

 

[nwdiver]

only caution i see is
Wind turbine design - Wikipedia
as turbines get bigger, tip speeds rapidly increase
for example a turbine with 170 meter blades (Washington monument for US residents) would reach 400mph at 10 rpm and above linked article talks about 264 meter swept area )(bit over 110 meter blades plus hub and larger presently) tho i do like turbines

Pretty sure that's not accurate. The larger the turbine blades the slower they spin likely for that reason. If the blade tips are moving at 400mph then they're being pushed which kinda defeats the purpose... If you look at a small turbine they're spinning MUCH MUCH faster than large turbines.

.... YEP.... 12MW turbines with a 107m blade length rotate at ~7.8 RPM; While 2MW turbines with a 80m blade length rotate at 16.7 RPM. Large turbines use variable pitch blades so they just bit into the wind more or less instead of changing speed.

So a 20MW wind turbine would probably spin at ~4 RPM. That might be kinda relaxing to watch

 

[jerry33]

I would prefer rooftop solar, especially Tesla's solar tile versions.

The only issue I have with Tesla's roof is that it looks like a cr*** shingle roof, not something cool.

 

[SDRick]

The only issue I have with Tesla's roof is that it looks like a cr*** shingle roof, not something cool.

Looking like cr*** may be a bit harsh...

 

[Icer]

SDRick, do any of those actually exist?

 

[mspohr]

Fix them?

Starting to overcome my hardened long term objection to Nuclear,
Gen IV
Uses radioactivity for fuel
No chance of meltdown

Radioactivity for fuel? That's novel. Nobody has thought of that before.
No chance of meltdown? Sounds like typical nuclear BS. If you can create heat, you can meltdown.
Any chance this is anything but a businessman's scam?

 

[SDRick]

SDRick, do any of those actually exist?

Of course they do, "I saw them on the Internet".

I do remember Elon unveiling them at some point. As per usual with much of this cutting edge tech stuff, timelines get skewed going from prototype to commercialization. Tesla really cannot screw this one up and must proceed somewhat cautiously. Roofs typically come with installation risks and long warranties. Combine a long warrantee with potential water leaks or generation shortfalls, any problem could get expensive.

 

[winfield100]

Pretty sure that's not accurate. The larger the turbine blades the slower they spin likely for that reason. If the blade tips are moving at 400mph then they're being pushed which kinda defeats the purpose... If you look at a small turbine they're spinning MUCH MUCH faster than large turbines.

.... YEP.... 12MW turbines with a 107m blade length rotate at ~7.8 RPM; While 2MW turbines with a 80m blade length rotate at 16.7 RPM. Large turbines use variable pitch blades so they just bit into the wind more or less instead of changing speed.

So a 20MW wind turbine would probably spin at ~4 RPM. That might be kinda relaxing to watch

yeah, the 107 m blade at 7.8 rpm is ~200mph
the 80 meter blade tips are {((262.5ft x 2) + 10ft hub)) * 3.14 * 16.7rpm * 60}/5280 = ~300mph tip speed
i vaguely recall power or something is the cube of the swept area
always enjoy seeing them, eh. When we toured the Irish countryside 17 yrs back saw a lot of wind turbines

 

[Icer]

Radioactivity for fuel?
Any chance this is anything but a businessman's scam?

I share your skepticism
My frustration is I am simply not qualified in the matter.

"Russia’s BN 800 Reactor is on the grid now producing 880 MWe.
Safe from meltdown and capable of consuming nuclear waste."

Mark Schneider on Twitter

 

[mspohr]

I share your skepticism
My frustration is I am simply not qualified in the matter.

"Russia’s BN 800 Reactor is on the grid now producing 880 MWe.
Safe from meltdown and capable of consuming nuclear waste."

Mark Schneider on Twitter

Did you actually read the Twitter thread?

 

[StealthP3D]

Any chance this is anything but a businessman's scam?

It's probably the grid equivalent of hydrogen-powered cars. It is being promoted so it looks like the dirty producers have a plan. Then it will end up too expensive or take too long to build. It's pretty hard to beat wind power for safety, cost, speed of deployment, etc. And we need to act quickly, not wait 15-30 years for a nuclear plant that may or may not get built.

 

[SR22pilot]

The only issue I have with Tesla's roof is that it looks like a cr*** shingle roof, not something cool.

Looks better than my present asphalt shingle roof. I just wish it wasn't so expensive.

 

[SR22pilot]

I remind myself of the enthusiasm for FSD in 2016, all
the experts were basically saying its a done deal..

Reread you're history. MOST experts have told Musk he is totally wrong when it comes to even Musk's present FSD timeframe. The only experts saying otherwise are at Tesla.

 

[ohmman]

Personally I find plenty of beauty in the current iteration of rooftop solar. But honestly, while aesthetics may improve adoption rates, they’re the least of my worries at this point.

 

[nwdiver]

Personally I find plenty of beauty in the current iteration of rooftop solar. But honestly, while aesthetics may improve adoption rates, they’re the least of my worries at this point.

While I doubt it's the intent my worry is that the solar roof is somewhat serving as FUD in the same vein as FCEVs... It gives fence sitters a reason to wait instead of pulling the trigger on traditional solar....

 

[ZsoZso]

While I doubt it's the intent my worry is that the solar roof is somewhat serving as FUD in the same vein as FCEVs... It gives fence sitters a reason to wait instead of pulling the trigger on traditional solar....

I am in the planning/design phase of my retirement home, construction to be started next spring.
I wanted to consider the Tesla tiles as an option for my new roof, but when I looked into more details, such as prices, availability and some reports of people who got it installed or tried to but have been refused, I have realized it is not something realistic for my time-line at my location. It seems to be stuck in pilot-project status at limited locations that are close enough for Tesla and it is still pretty pricey. Looks like metal roof + traditional panels still comes out at significantly lower cost. So that is what I am going with.

Another angle to consider: Elon stated that the tiles will practically last "forever", i.e. probably longer than your house itself, so you never need to replace them. However, solar cell performance is typically guaranteed for 20-25 years and output is expected to start significantly dropping after that. With traditional panels, you can replace them after 25 years with the latest models, which might be a bit more efficient by that time.

 

[JRP3]

However, solar cell performance is typically guaranteed for 20-25 years and output is expected to start significantly dropping after that

I don't believe that's accurate. Modern panels, good ones, have less than .5% loss per year, so after 40 years should still be producing more than 80% of original capacity.

 

[Icer]

I Like the panels on the ground.
With the gadget to follow the sun
Easy to get at them to clean them off or service.
No holes in the roof.

 

[nwdiver]

I Like the panels on the ground.
With the gadget to follow the sun
Easy to get at them to clean them off or service.
No holes in the roof.

Tracking systems really aren't worth the cost or maintenance now that solar panels are ~$0.50/w. It's cheaper just to add more panels facing a different direction. If it's not supposed to move it's not a problem when it stops moving.