Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[tigerade]

It still feels unreal. I was cynical. I think justifiably so. I thought that climate deniers would win, that humanity would continue to recklessly burn fossil fuels and simultaneously deny the science behind climate change and continue to vitriolically attack scientists and activists who would make it otherwise.

But, here I am, witnessing world history as virtually every country in the world adopts an ambitious climate deal. Wow.

 

[Zaxxon]

I too am heartened, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The details aren't out, and the deal isn't even legally binding, is it?

 

[tigerade]

I too am heartened, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. The details aren't out, and the deal isn't even legally binding, is it?

Reading through it right now, very happy with what I'm seeing.
http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/2015/cop21/eng/l09.pdf

 

[ModelX]

It is a good day!

 

[AudubonB]

I'm not sure why there is much celebrating at present. For this agreement to have teeth, it must pass muster in that most recalcitrant of bodies, which is the U.S. Senate. That US negotiator Todd Stern has signed off on it means nothing or, since he is a member of President Obama's administration, less than nothing in the eyes of an inordinate number of members of that body.
194 other nations may "ratify" it, as it were, but if the US does not then, in course of time, the others may capitulate and go back to Business As Usual.

Am I incorrect here?

 

[nwdiver]

I'm not sure why there is much celebrating at present. For this agreement to have teeth, it must pass muster in that most recalcitrant of bodies, which is the U.S. Senate. That US negotiator Todd Stern has signed off on it means nothing or, since he is a member of President Obama's administration, less than nothing in the eyes of an inordinate number of members of that body.
194 other nations may "ratify" it, as it were, but if the US does not then, in course of time, the others may capitulate and go back to Business As Usual.

Am I incorrect here?

Yes and no... COP21 has exceeded most expectations so from that perspective there is cause to celebrate... but on the other hand there really are no legally binding resolution (although the agreement does 'urge' parties to sign onto the binding portion of the kyoto protocol.

SunPower CEO wrote an interesting Op-ed on how COP21 focused on 'who' and 'why' without paying much attention to 'how'...

Some carbon tariffs would have been nice... and it really would have shut down the AGW deniers in the US Senate. Voting AGW deniers into power is an almost exclusively american thing... not a lot they can do if the rest of the world imposes trade restrictions on the US due to our fossil fuel abuse...

 

[ggies07]

This is good to hear, the dark side is losing.......sorry. We are watching all the Star Wars movie in preparation to see the new one this Friday night and it dawned on me the parallels of the dark side with what's going on in our world. Specifically Ep. III -

-Palpatine takes over the senate = Koch brothers take congress
-Anakin = Congress members
-Obi Wan says at the end 'only a sith deals in absolutes'
-Koch/GOP only deal in absolutes - ex. there is no climate change/we must keep using oil/no reason for EVs/renewable energy

Hopefully this agreement in Paris = Return of the Jedi

/nerdiness

 

[AudubonB]

On first quick look at the news as reported, it seems that there was a change of wording that effectively alter from "...nations shall..." to "...nations should..." that makes the accord a non-treaty, so to speak - and as such will not need the US Senate's approval (by the way, for treaties, the Senate needs approval by a two-thirds margin).

Good....but sufficient? The skeptical side of me is wondering whether this accord will have the power of a bulldozer made out of jello.

 

[ohmman]

Hopefully this agreement in Paris = Return of the Jedi

Oh, crap. We're going to be overrun by Ewoks?

 

[Lloyd]

I understand that the United States Taxpayers had to put into the pot just under 1 trillion dollars (869 billion IIRC) to aid under developed countries in order to make this pass.

 

[ggies07]

Yes and no... COP21 has exceeded most expectations so from that perspective there is cause to celebrate... but on the other hand there really are no legally binding resolution (although the agreement does 'urge' parties to sign onto the binding portion of the kyoto protocol.

SunPower CEO wrote an interesting Op-ed on how COP21 focused on 'who' and 'why' without paying much attention to 'how'...

Some carbon tariffs would have been nice... and it really would have shut down the AGW deniers in the US Senate. Voting AGW deniers into power is an almost exclusively american thing... not a lot they can do if the rest of the world imposes trade restrictions on the US due to our fossil fuel abuse...

Maybe he's confused then?

French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius called the agreement a "historic turning point" and said the "final draft" is legally binding.

World Leaders in Paris Agree to Deal on Climate Change - NBC News

 

[ohmman]

I understand that the United States Taxpayers had to put into the pot just under 1 trillion dollars (869 billion IIRC) to aid under developed countries in order to make this pass.

Is this part of the "at least 100B a year" from developed countries? If so, what's the timeframe on that? Sorry, I'm looking but haven't found anything concrete other than that.

--Edit--

What I see is the $100B per year starting in 2020 and guaranteed through 2025. The official document has no breakdown of the requirement of the US vs. other "developed countries". Perhaps there's an ancillary document that I'm not finding.

 

[ggies07]

Is this part of the "at least 100B a year" from developed countries? If so, what's the timeframe on that? Sorry, I'm looking but haven't found anything concrete other than that.

Rich countries agreed to raise $100bn (£66bn) a year by 2020 to help poor countries transform their economies.

Thought this was a better article of the ones I found:

Paris climate deal: nearly 200 nations sign in end of fossil fuel era | Environment | The Guardian

 

[nwdiver]

Maybe he's confused then?

Parts are legally binding... just not the emissions goals or the financial assistance to developing countries... basically all the parts that require meaningful action.

Even if everything was legally binding... a resolution accepting reality would never survive the US congress... much less anything that would actually do anything about it...

 

[tigerade]

Reactions to the Paris Agreement:
The Latest: World Bank chief after climate deal - Yahoo News

World Bank President Jim Yong Kim

World Bank President Jim Yong Kim says he was stunned by the Paris climate agreement adopted by more than 190 countries.

Kim told The Associated Press in a phone interview that he was "in a bit of a shock, a happy shock" after the deal was gaveled on Saturday.

He said he woke up Sunday much more optimistic about the world his children would inherit.

He said the Paris talks concluded with "something far more ambitious than the highest hopes" going into the negotiations.

Kim highlighted the goal in the agreement of pursuing efforts to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees C (2.7 degrees Fahrenheit), compared to pre-industrial levels. That's more ambitious than the 2-degree goal that had guided the talks in the past.

Some question whether it's realistic, given that the world is projected to warm by around 3 degrees C even with current efforts to reduce heat-trapping greenhouse gas emissions.

"It's going to be hugely challenging," Kim said. "But I think for me what this agreement does is it tells us, whether you think it's realistic or not, get to work."

Pope Francis

Pope Francis is encouraging concerted efforts by all so that the climate pact reached in Paris can be put into action.

Francis has made care for the Earth's environment one of his papacy's themes, insisting that the world's poor suffer heavily when climate change isn't addressed.

Speaking to pilgrims and tourists Sunday at the Vatican, he said the deal's "implementation requires concerted effort and generous dedication by the part of everyone."

Francis expressed hope that "special attention, paid to the most vulnerable, be guaranteed." He also urged "the entire international community to continue, with solicitude, on the path undertaken, in the sign of solidarity that will become ever more positive."

Israel PM Benjamin Netanyahu

Israel's prime minister is welcoming the climate agreement signed in Paris.

Speaking at his weekly Cabinet meeting Sunday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called the deal "important." He said Israel has an interest, like other countries, in slowing down global warming if not halting it altogether.

Israel's Environmental Protection Minister Avi Gabbay said a budget of about $200 million has been devoted to meet climate targets. He said Israel would move toward renewable energy sources, cleaner technology and more public transport. He said: "We have a lot of steps to do and we are doing it now."

Israel as a small country is not among the world's heaviest polluters, but it relies on fossil fuels for transport and to generate electricity.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel

German Chancellor Angela Merkel is applauding the global pact to fight climate change that was adopted by nearly 200 nations in Paris.

Merkel said in a statement released late Saturday that the climate agreement marks "the first time that the entire world community has obligated itself to act — to act in the battle against global climate change."

The German chancellor said while there was still a lot of work ahead, the deal is a "sign of hope that we will manage to secure the life conditions of billions of people for the future."

The Paris agreement adopted Saturday aims to keep global warming from rising another degree Celsius (1.8 Fahrenheit) between now and 2100, a key demand of poor countries ravaged by rising sea levels and other effects of climate change.

 

[Lloyd]

Is this part of the "at least 100B a year" from developed countries? If so, what's the timeframe on that? Sorry, I'm looking but haven't found anything concrete other than that.

--Edit--

What I see is the $100B per year starting in 2020 and guaranteed through 2025. The official document has no breakdown of the requirement of the US vs. other "developed countries". Perhaps there's an ancillary document that I'm not finding.

This was initially reported by Fox and CNN, but then not reported on further. We will have to wait until the text of the document is released. Fox News Sunday is having a panel discussion today on the cost to the US Economy of our participation and support.

Edit.......... Watched and questions not really answered.

 

[ggies07]

Reactions to the Paris Agreement:
The Latest: World Bank chief after climate deal - Yahoo News

World Bank President Jim Yong Kim


Pope Francis


Israel PM Benjamin Netanyahu


German Chancellor Angela Merkel

Thanks for the summary. I really like this piece from Bill that's a real pistol-whip for people who think the plan was enough for now.

Climate deal: the pistol has fired, so why aren’t we running? | Bill McKibben | Opinion | The Guardian

They don’t seem to quite get it: from this point on, if you’re even slightly serious about meeting these targets, you have to do everything possible. There’s no more compromises or trade-offs that can be made. You’re no longer negotiating with a bunch of other countries around a conference table. You’re negotiating with physics, and physics holds all the good cards.

 

[rays427]

1.5° would be fantastic. Great work!

Just because they said 1.5 degrees increase doesn't make it so. Since there are no consequences for not actually lowering your CO2 emissions I don't see how this will work. How much of the $100 billion per year do you think will actually get through all the corrupt politicians? Sorry to be so pessimistic but I have worked overseas and have witnessed how things work. This will only work if all countries do their part and I don't see that happening. I see this as a pie in the sky feel good agreement that can't work.

 

[ohmman]

This will only work if all countries do their part and I don't see that happening. I see this as a pie in the sky feel good agreement that can't work.

Is there a format that you think will work, within the constraints of your experience? Or are you saying that any agreement is pointless, including this one? Just curious because it's hard to figure out if you've given up hope, or if you have a better option. (Note: either answer is reasonable in my view).

 

[rays427]

Is there a format that you think will work, within the constraints of your experience? Or are you saying that any agreement is pointless, including this one? Just curious because it's hard to figure out if you've given up hope, or if you have a better option. (Note: either answer is reasonable in my view).

I only think it will work if it's economically viable. If you have to force it there is to much to gain by cheating.