Choose between 2015 Model S 85D Higher mileage vs low mileage 2015 Model S 90D.

[zqmisc]

Hi All,

I am planning to finally bite the bullet and buy a used 2015 (or possibly later, budget constrained) Model S. I really need some expert advice on the dilemma that I end up seeing. For example, I saw a high mileage 2015 Model S 85D (with FSUC) vs a low mileage 2015 Model S 90D (no FSUC) with similar features, albeit a little higher price (may be 6K+). So what is more advisable, get the cheaper higher mileage (100K+) 2015 Model S 85D with FUSC or pay up a little more now and get a low mileage 2015 Model S 90D (maybe 60K lesser miles, no FUSC)?

Also I see some concerns about early build MS 90D batteries degrading quicker. What is defined "early"? Is late 2015 considered early? Any and all advise will be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

 

[GammaDelta]

What are the prices? What is high mileage? What maintenance has been done? what condition are they in?
I have a late build (Dec 2015) and it has a battery and drive unit warranty (unlimited mileage) until Dec 30th this year and FSUC - it has been awesome

 

[WallysRide]

You're looking at cars that will have little to no warranty left, so your biggest risk is the HV battery. If you have the time, I would recommend searching for an older S that has had a recent HV battery replacement done with a new (not remanufactured) battery. You can search these forums to learn how to read battery stickers, so that you can confirm this for yourself.

If you can find such a car, then you don't need to worry about higher mileage, because the HV battery will have lower mileage on it and it will be a more reliable, newer tech battery (search on these forums for the 350V, 14 module replacement battery). You'll probably get the best deal on a used 2015 that is >100K miles but with a new 350V replacement battery.

It will take you longer to find such a car. Private sellers will usually know if they've had a battery replacement, but small dealers often will not. But you can confirm it for yourself by reading the battery sticker.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Is Tesla selling the car without FUSC? I thought all 2015 Teslas had FUSC originally, but Tesla can remove it if they resell the car.

 

[gaswalla]

many ways a car can lose FUSC - simple search will help
the 90's had a marginal bit larger battery than the 85's at production but the early ones had rapid degradation, so at this point, the 85 is probably the 'better' battery.
Get a look at the battery labels on each car - statistically, there is a decent chance at least one of them has had the battery replaced. I'd go with the one with a newer battery. If you plan on driving long stretches and would use superchargers a lot, then FUSC is worth it.
Realize that a 2015 with original battery will need a new battery in the next few years

 

[H4RDWRK]

Neither. Lease a new car. No headaches.

 

[Crutonius]

I see the lease price is about 1300 a month. The cars the op has mentioned should run about 7 or 800 cheaper to own it. You might have problems with a used one. But you're guaranteed to pay an extra 800 a month on a leased one.

 

[zqmisc]

What are the prices? What is high mileage? What maintenance has been done? what condition are they in?
I have a late build (Dec 2015) and it has a battery and drive unit warranty (unlimited mileage) until Dec 30th this year and FSUC - it has been awesome

I started noticing in my online search that the same year (2015) similar models (85/85D/90D), the higher mileage cars (120K miles) vs 50K miles mileage cars had a price difference of about 6K. Some of these 2015s don't have a warranty left now or may be a few months left. I've also read that these older warranties would take care of battery failure but not necessarily degradation (of 70% or less) like the newer warranties (that are limited by miles). In any case I wanted to get a perspective on higher mileage vs lower mileage 2015 model S's, and if 2015 90Ds need to be avoided.

Thanks for sharing your experience though.

 

[zqmisc]

You're looking at cars that will have little to no warranty left, so your biggest risk is the HV battery. If you have the time, I would recommend searching for an older S that has had a recent HV battery replacement done with a new (not remanufactured) battery. You can search these forums to learn how to read battery stickers, so that you can confirm this for yourself.

If you can find such a car, then you don't need to worry about higher mileage, because the HV battery will have lower mileage on it and it will be a more reliable, newer tech battery (search on these forums for the 350V, 14 module replacement battery). You'll probably get the best deal on a used 2015 that is >100K miles but with a new 350V replacement battery.

It will take you longer to find such a car. Private sellers will usually know if they've had a battery replacement, but small dealers often will not. But you can confirm it for yourself by reading the battery sticker.

Thanks. So is battery failure such a common thing on older model S's? I thought you could expect these cars to drive 200K miles before the battery gives up the ghost. If battery failure is a rarity, I am willing to take a chance with the older model S's (and then maybe lesser driven miles makes more sense) so that way I can leverage the car for the foreseeable future (I tend to keep cars for long). On the contrary if battery failure is more common after the battery warranty has expired, then probably go with a car with the "newer" battery replacement.

 

[zqmisc]

many ways a car can lose FUSC - simple search will help
the 90's had a marginal bit larger battery than the 85's at production but the early ones had rapid degradation, so at this point, the 85 is probably the 'better' battery.
Get a look at the battery labels on each car - statistically, there is a decent chance at least one of them has had the battery replaced. I'd go with the one with a newer battery. If you plan on driving long stretches and would use superchargers a lot, then FUSC is worth it.
Realize that a 2015 with original battery will need a new battery in the next few years

Got it, thanks. FUSC is a nice to have in my head, not a deal breaker though. On the 90s, I am presuming 2015 is considered early then.

It seems from the comments here on this thread that the battery failure is a function of time (8+ years) vs mileage and it seems a given that the batteries on these older models are failing in the 8-12 years of age. I am not sure if I would buy a car (Tesla or otherwise) that is surely going to present a large expense of 15-20K anytime after 8 years of ownership.

 

[zqmisc]

Neither. Lease a new car. No headaches.

I wish. It does come with a bigger price tag.

 

[zqmisc]

Thanks guys. I guess the perspective I am/was looking for is whether a 2015/2016 Model s's, a low vs high mileage car is preferable, assuming it still has the original battery. What I have gathered so far, the death of a battery is a function of time/age vs mileage, the probability of the battery dying on these 2015s when they are out of warranty is pretty high. So finding cars who batteries have been replaced (hopefully with newer batteries and not reman) maybe a better bet.

 

[zqmisc]

Not sure what happened to comments attributed to Elon that these cars and their batteries are designed to last at least till 200K/300K miles.

 

[WallysRide]

Thanks. So is battery failure such a common thing on older model S's? I thought you could expect these cars to drive 200K miles before the battery gives up the ghost. If battery failure is a rarity, I am willing to take a chance with the older model S's (and then maybe lesser driven miles makes more sense) so that way I can leverage the car for the foreseeable future (I tend to keep cars for long). On the contrary if battery failure is more common after the battery warranty has expired, then probably go with a car with the "newer" battery replacement.

Everyone's risk tolerance is different. I wasn't willing to risk buying an 8 year old battery. Only Tesla has the exact statistics, so there's no real way to estimate the risk. The oldest S's (2012-2014) had higher risk of failure due to design issues - you can read this thread on this forum. I bought a lower mileage 2014 that had its battery replaced under warranty at <50K miles.

 

[father_of_6]

Have you driven a Model S yet? And have you driven a Model 3?

I suspect you're looking at a used Model S that could be close in price to a new Model 3. At least give the Model 3 a test drive before you rule it out. It's a blast to drive and a new warranty sure is reassuring on an expensive battery.

 

[zqmisc]

Everyone's risk tolerance is different. I wasn't willing to risk buying an 8 year old battery. Only Tesla has the exact statistics, so there's no real way to estimate the risk. The oldest S's (2012-2014) had higher risk of failure due to design issues - you can read this thread on this forum. I bought a lower mileage 2014 that had its battery replaced under warranty at <50K miles.

Got it. Yeah my risk tolerance isn’t much different than yours and I am having second thoughts if these batteries are going to quit on you every few years. I mean if they are prone to die within their warranty period, expecting the replacement to last longer than 8 years, May not be ideal. I was planning to have this more of a daily/local driving car, that I can hold onto for longer so I don’t have to do car shopping again anytime soon. So far I am not hearing this would fit that requirement

 

[zqmisc]

Have you driven a Model S yet? And have you driven a Model 3?

I suspect you're looking at a used Model S that could be close in price to a new Model 3. At least give the Model 3 a test drive before you rule it out. It's a blast to drive and a new warranty sure is reassuring on an expensive battery.

I had seen some old used Model S in the 20K price range. Then I saw some around 25K and some better ones around 30K. A new model 3 would have made sense with the full tax credit when it was there less than a month ago. I could’nt convince myself with a partial premium interior at that time (maybe I should have). I’ve driven a used model S and I liked it and also liked AP1 (better than the newer basic AP). I have also heard that the Model S rides much better than a M3, i.e more like a luxury car. I haven’t driven a 3 so wouldn’t know.

 

[father_of_6]

The Model S is like a boat, and the Model 3 is like a go-kart. I vastly prefer the ride of the Model 3.

A 2015 Model S *just* came off it's 8 year warranty, which is probably why the owner got rid of it. I guess it all comes down to risk tolerance, but that 20k car could require 20k worth of repairs in the next year or two.

Prices aside, I'd still strongly recommend getting a Model 3 test drive. You may never look at an S again. (Yes, I'm that guy that posts in the S subforum and recommends the Model 3 )

 

[zqmisc]

The Model S is like a boat, and the Model 3 is like a go-kart. I vastly prefer the ride of the Model 3.

A 2015 Model S *just* came off it's 8 year warranty, which is probably why the owner got rid of it. I guess it all comes down to risk tolerance, but that 20k car could require 20k worth of repairs in the next year or two.

Prices aside, I'd still strongly recommend getting a Model 3 test drive. You may never look at an S again. (Yes, I'm that guy that posts in the S subforum and recommends the Model 3 )

. I hear you. Maybe once I get off the model S search boat, I may test drive a 3. Logically speaking what you’re saying makes sense: spending 25/30K now and risking another 20K, maybe better off getting a newer 3.

 

[Crutonius]

Logically a 3 is a better choice. They learned a lot of lessons with the S that went into their design of the 3/Y. There is actually a used market for the 3 so it's possible to save some money going the used route. Objectively the only major thing the S does better is the suspension but is that really worth nearly doubling the price?

Then again if you're really being logical about this then you should buy a Honda Civic or a Prius Prime.

Personally though I tried to like the 3 and I just can't. I don't know what it is but the S just feels great to drive and whenever I test drove the 3 it just reminded me that I'm not driving the S.

Regarding battery failure rates, as others have stated no one knows except Tesla and perhaps some third party shops that fix these batteries. Unfortunately they're not spilling the beans. All we have are anecdotes which aren't the same thing as data.