True. I was thinking with my USA hat on (no, not the Trump version!).
Canada has a lot of 60-80A J1772 chargers put in my Sun Country and perhaps others.
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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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Canada has a lot of 60-80A J1772 chargers put in my Sun Country and perhaps others.
green1
Active Member
Ugghhh... I've been in business for 23 years, and all my buildings have 277 vac lighting, as do most all US commercial or industrial buildings.
If you have 480 vac 3ph, you have 277 (nominal).
208vac 3ph is after it's been stepped down from 480.
diamond.g
Active Member
Wonder if the Bolt is hard limited to 7.2 kW. With 277V 8.3kW should be possible. The Bolt tops out at 30 or 32 A?
green1
Active Member
You will not find a Canadian business that has 277v period. (I can't speak for industrial, but certainly not commercial)
I'd also be highly skeptical about hooking it up to the car, especially keeping in mind that Tesla doesn't sell any adapters that are designed for anything over 240v, J1772 is rated for a maximum of 80A at 240V (100A breaker), and the HPWC is also rated at 240v for 80A (100A breaker)
What charging standard do you think you're going to use on one of these 277v lines that you can't actually get anyway?
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green1
Active Member
Again, what standard will you use for 277v? there is no charging standard rated for 277v.
Your math assumes a non-existant charging standard. And I wouldn't recommend feeding the car 37v more than it's designed for.
Calculate based on 240v if you want the maximum, and 208v if you want real-world.
diamond.g
Active Member
The Tesla Wall Connector manual used to say it supported 277 volts, but it appears the manual has been revised and no longer says that. (There are people using the Wall Connector hooked to 277v.)
green1
Active Member
So you're making the assumption, that Chevy is going to disregard the J1772 charging standard and allow 277v just because someone previously managed to get a Tesla HPWC to work, even though the Tesla manual says not to....
Sure... that's sound logic.
Yup. I've also seen folks say the car throttled the current back in order to not exceed the 10/20KW total output rating.
I think the charger's ability to accept 277 is a by-product of the fact that the same chargers were designed to be ganged together for use in the superchargers...
And perhaps they anticipated commercial 277v circuits in service centers?
A lot of discussion here about the charging. Realistically, don't most people have a different car they can take if they are planning on going over 150 miles? I personally don't know many single people without more than one car and can't think of any people with families without at least two cars. A 200-mile electric commuter car like the Bolt together with a plug-in hybrid SUV/Minivan like the Pacifica hybrid would seem to satisfy the vast majority of household needs. I would think that most people taking road trips, visiting friends, or going to the cottage would take the largest vehicle anyway.
That's a common assumption, and not the way I or most of the few folks I know personally drive - I took my X to Chicago a month ago, and it was a great trip.
I actually put together a poll on the subject a little while back because of that assumption:
Tesla as only car (poll)
Of the respondents to date, 40% don't own a non-Tesla car - and only 15% wouldn't take the Tesla if they were taking a road trip. If the Bolt is really competing with Teslas the way people use Teslas today, it matters.
jgs
Active Member
I know one single person who has more than one car. All the rest of the single people I know have one or zero. I know a decent number of one-car couples or families. For that matter, my family does have an ICE car (for now, it will be replaced by an EV in due time) but when we road-trip it's in the EV. All of which goes to say only, beware of assuming your own little corner of the universe can be assumed representative of everyone.
The average household has 1.9 vehicles. If you look at households making over $60,000 (the people buying new cars) the number gets closer to 3 vehicles per household. If you remove Condo dwellers who don't drive, it is clear that the vast majority of people able to afford new vehicles in Canada and the US have multiple vehicles.
jgs
Active Member
Be that as it may (and as mind-boggling as I find it), what's the takeaway? I think you were making the point that households with EVs (or just Bolts?) can be expected to have a minivan or SUV or pickup truck or whatever that they're going to use for road-tripping anyhow? If you want to draw conclusions from large statistical pools, it might also be interesting to look specifically at households with EVs, and not just generic vehicles. @Saghost, a few posts back, offers a reason to think that "oh we'll just take the gas-burner" may not be such an obvious choice for people that have opted in to EV ownership. (Isn't for me and my family, apparently not for a lot of Tesla owners per the poll @Saghost linked.)
That's a common assumption, and not the way I or most of the few folks I know personally drive - I took my X to Chicago a month ago, and it was a great trip.
I actually put together a poll on the subject a little while back because of that assumption:
Tesla as only car (poll)
Of the respondents to date, 40% don't own a non-Tesla car - and only 15% wouldn't take the Tesla if they were taking a road trip. If the Bolt is really competing with Teslas the way people use Teslas today, it matters.
That is 150 votes of electric car enthusiasts. A combination of Bolt/Hybrid Pacifica, for example, would work for millions. Tesla fans are (rightfully so) fairly fanatical. The interesting question comes with the mass market. Most people buying new cars, has multiple vehicles.
The argument you're supporting is that charging on the Bolt isn't important because people that buy 200 mile electric cars like the Bolt wouldn't use it for road trips.
The data I presented is that people who buy long range electric cars overwhelmingly do use them for road trips.
I don't see how your unsupported personal impression of how millions of folks who aren't currently considering long range electric cars would hypothetically choose to drive is germane to the point...
The takeaway is that EV's (including PHEV's) are becoming mainstream and mainstream users have to be accounted for. There are millions, maybe hundreds of millions, of people who could buy an EV as a second or third car. An EV as a tool to save money, compared to just a way to save the environment will be key to marketing mass adoption. Adding a Bolt to your household should be a decent financial decision.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Considering the planned volume of Bolt production I think it's fair to say there are enough people who could buy the Bolt as a second vehicle and not worry much about road tripping with it.
My argument is more that there is an abundance of people who could buy the Bolt who have no need to take it long road tripping. The farmer with a solar array and cares about the environment, likely owned 4 plus vehicles already and may see the Bolt as a good addition. He also isn't likely on this forum. The millions of people who walk into a GM dealership and have never considered an electric car before, could likely find space for a 200 mile EV without long distance travel capabilities,
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