Charging the Roadster

[Alpine Driver]

Andrew,
congrats on your car.
As for the RFMC (euro-spec), I am very worried. I am waiting now ONE YEAR for the device. My order number was #18 (1 to 17 manufactured my Martin Eberhard, #18 and up orders were transfered to James and his company). I had some email contact with James and one of his employees, but for more than 3 month now I am not getting any answer from James. Not by direct email contact, not trough PM on this forum. Although he is participating on this forum.
Very sad.
I think I have to write off the money I payed for the RFMC. (never got an invoice for the RFMC, but as an european first in line I had to organice that an american friend bought the MC120 for USD 600,00 at the tesla store, which was mandatory to contribute this to James which I did).

 

[AndrewBissell]

Alpine Driver, first - thanks! Second - that sounds really worrying. I just assumed you had your RFMC. I read you had ordered it and assumed it would be there with you long ago.

James - please will you comment? We'd all like to know if the RFMC - which seems like such a great product - is still available. And if so, is there a European version? And can Alpine Driver have his! And can I order mine?

Many thanks

Andrew

 

[Palpatine]

Sorry I did not see this topic about the RFMC.

The RFMC volume has declined a lot with the slower sales of the Tesla Roadster. We did a lot of these in 2009, but lately a few.

This is not our main business.

We attempted one Euro version of the RFMC for a customer in Norway. It works, but there is not enough volume to do these with Euro plugs. So we have decided to limit production to USA and Canada.

Nobody has paid us for a Euro RFMC. We only did one for a Norway customer. There are no other unfilled orders to my knowledge. Everyone that paid us has received an RFMC. I cannot build one or ship it until a payment is received. It is a low volume production item.

I typically have two of them in stock ready to ship at any time. Then when an MC 120 arrives, I ship out one of our completed RFMC units that I have fully tested on my Roadster. Then we upgrade the MC 120 for a future customer as time permits.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Doug_G]

James:

Tesla Roadster Foundry aftermarket accessories

The Roadster Foundry Mobile Connector (RFMC)

Your links no longer work. Where do we find these items?

 

[Palpatine]

The reason the links are broken is that we moved to a new website software.
The main domain is still correct. But the category and product links have changed.

EV Components

I have not yet added the Tesla products back into the new online store. My first priority was our main products.

We still have sufficient parts to make about 20-25 more of the RFMC recharging kits.

 

[Palpatine]

Regarding the Euro version of the RFMC, we have only done one as an experiment. We don't plan on doing any more of them.

Doing a Euro version of the RFMC is time consuming because they are not the standard plugs.
I am not going to have a technician build those plugs unless we are paid in advance.
The parts for those plugs are not standard for me to obtain in the USA.

I don't have enough Euro RFMC orders to make it worthwhile.
So we declined to do it unless we are paid in full in advance.
Nobody has paid us any money to order the parts for those plugs. It is a specialty set of Euro plugs that I don't have easily available to me.

I also do not have the ability to test the Euro version of the RFMC in the USA. That makes it risky to manufacture and ship it without testing it on my Tesla Roadster.

For the RFMC in the USA/Canada they are all the same.
I have no concerns about building two or three in advance waiting for customers.
Because I know they will eventually be purchased or I can always use them at my house and in our warehouse at work.

I cannot do that with the Euro version.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Alpine Driver]

James,

nice to hear from you.
Sorry to hear about that you have that / expect that low order volume for Euro-Spec RFMC and therefore declined the product.
As in my case, as of being a (willing) customer having placed an oder, it would have been nice to know about that decision. Please note that I was #18 in the order queue of Martin Eberhard, where #1 to #17 were manufactured by himself, and then the rest of his orders were transformed to your company. After one quiet starting phase, I had a lot of good emails with you, and your (employee?) Stephen Johnsen, in October 2009. We discussed the different Amperage-settings possible for the Euro-Spec (16/24/40), and I was informed that you have one set of Euro-Plugs there and can make my RFMC within one week. Stephen informed me that for my more favoured settings of 16/32/48A for my RFMC you need some code-help from Martin Eberhard for the 32A and 48A, but it was declared as "easy". I then was offered 16/32/40A for immediate realisation, and accepted it in a way that I have to do it if the 48A is not possible, and asked Stephen what was the reason that the 48A are now not possible. So we both have invested a lot of time and effort in this project. This was on 12. Nov. 2009, and from this time on it was absolutely quiet from your company.
I sent half a dozen emails asking for the actual status about every 4 weeks to your email adress(es), to Stephen, and trough the PM function of this forum. I never got any response - so I am very happy to hear from you after 5 (five) month through this forum. As I also do run a business, please kindly allow me to give the feedback that from a CRM view this quietness is only suboptimal. When customers are begging for a status update, you should give them some information, maybe although some background decisions are still not made.
Please do see this as positiv feedback, as in summarizing even if you did not serve me well, you do a very good job for the Tesla community in general.

As for the EURO-RFMC product in general, I cannot do anything else as to accept your decision not to manufacture this product. And yes, you are correct, there was no money involved. I guess this was because my order was placed so soon and transferred from Martin Eberhard to your company (your webshop with the Tesla products was not established at this time), and Martin Eberhard did not charge in advance. Although advanced payment would never have been a problem, you never asked for that - maybe the european version was not calculated at this time, due to surely different cost for the connectors?
On the other side, the RFMC did "already cost" me more than USD 600,00. This is because I had to supply the MC120. And as an european customer, I did not get this device "for free" with my car. I had to order it at the Tesla US Store (USD 600,00 at the time of ordering last year), and provided it to your company.
So, to bring that project to an end, may I kindly ask that you send back my MC120 that I provided to you? After having your OK, I will provide a valid US street adress (per email) from a parcel forwarder, which will forward it to Austria. Although I cannot use it here, I then have at least the Tesla connector as a spare, if there are some european customised solutions sometimes or if I damage my connector, ..

At the end I am sorry that it ends this way, as we both have invested a lot of effort & ressources, the product would be good, but when it will not be manufactured it is at it is.
Please give your ok to send back my MC120.

Thanks,
best

Martin

 

[dpeilow]

Can anyone explain this apparent discrepancy in the description of the Tesla Universal Mobile Charger?

Universal Mobile Connector
Charging rate of 32 miles range per hour at max power

The Universal Mobile Connector is ideal for road trips or as an alternative to the Home Connector. You can fully recharge your car in 6 hours or less. This unit is highly flexible with an included NEMA 14-50 adapter and a selection of 10 additional adapters available separately. You can store it in your trunk for road trips, and plug into nearly any outlet anywhere – including your electric clothes dryer and other large or industrial appliances.

6x 32 miles = 192, yet the owners' manual states that the charge time at 40A is 6.2 hours in standard mode and 7 hours in range mode. The extra time would not get you to 236 miles total.

 

[TEG]

The technical specs lists max power: 9.6 kW which is 40A@240V, and 9.6kW*6 hours= 57.6kWh which seems like enough to fully charge a 53kWh Roadster pack even considering any charging losses.

So, my guess would be that the 32miles per hour charge rate estimate is a little on the low side.

By the way, us old timers who watched modems go from 9600 baud to 57,600 baud may find these 9600watt and 57,600wh numbers oddly familiar.

 

[ChargeIt!]

I think dpeilow is right and it's an error on TM's part.

Someone may have assumed a STD Mode charge when calculating the 6 hours. But let's look further ... For the HomeConnector under "Installation Requirements" (using the link dpeilow provided) shows 6 hours for a 50A breaker rating. But this translates into a 40A charging rate ... due to the NFP/NEMA 80% rule. (So now I am also wondering whether the 80% rule ... which by coincidence matches the STD/Range mode 80% "rule" ... have been confused by someone at TM.)

I agree that 40A*240V/300 (my little formula) gives 32MPHC. And at that rate it DOES take 6 hours for a STD mode charge. But it would take more than 7.5hrs for a Range mode charge due to "trickle" charging in the upper 10-15%.

The same HPC chart shows 4 hours for 90A breaker=70A max (it can't do 72A). In the past everyone has always talked about 3.5-4.0 hours for a full charge. Which would be the practical number (in the super majority of cases you never start from zero). But even 4 hours won't get you from 0-245. The HPC description says 56MPHC. (70A*240V/300=56, so that matches). But even 245/56 is 4.3 hrs.

So ... IMHO ... It seems the times quoted are for a STD mode charge ... and therefore it's more of a convention based on an unstated assumption, rather than an "error". They should clarify the assumptions.

 

[dpeilow]

I've been looking at Martin's old blog about the RFMC for a while now, as I've been curious as to whether we can make a charger default to a set of standard currents that better fit European outlets.

Having noted the progression of pulse widths he describes in the signalling square wave and worked out the pattern, I realised I had missed the big hint in the preamble that the signalling standard is in affect the same as AVCON / J1772-2001.


I found a copy of the J1772-2001 standard online and sure enough, the progression is what was found - topping out at 48A and 800 microseconds (one level above the RFMC described).

This begs the question - if 900 microsecond pulse widths tell the vehicle to accept DC charging, how does one charge at a rate above 48A?

Appendix B in the standard describes an extension for Level 3 (> 48A) AC charging, so I wondered if this is what Tesla is using.

The appendix describes two level 3 pins in the connector, but these are in effect wired in parallel and could equally be the same pins as level 2 in Tesla's connector.

The car is meant to indicate that it can accept L3 during the pilot signal phase.

Once the charger and vehicle have established that they are capable of L3, the pilot signal square wave then takes on a different scale in relation to max current available. This gives the following example levels (note the standard was designed to go to 96kW).

It can also be seen that in order to control current to a granular level, obviously the generation and measurement of the square wave has to be much more precise.


Can anyone confirm that the method described in this Level 3 appendix is indeed how Tesla have implemented higher power charging (over 48A)?

 

[folsomev]

J1772-2001 versus J1772-2010

J1772-2010 is the latest version. In that version, Level 2 goes up to 80A, with steps at 56A, 64A, 70/72A, and 80A. Level 3 has been divided into AC quick charging and DC quick charging. The SAE quick charging standards are under development, not yet published.

The steps are communicating to the car the maximum ampacity available. The driver can choose to charge at a lower rate.

 

[dpeilow]

Does the new version still have the step at 48A to remain backwards compatible?

 

[folsomev]

J1772-2010

Yes. (The editor doesn't like such short replies....)

 

[pgwoosley]

MC240 problems

Does anyone have any ideas why my MC240 is not working (and has never worked)?

The car gives an "External Fault Error" when I try to use the MC240.

The MC240 (with the standard 14-50 connector/plug) is plugged into a 14-50 socket that works fine with two other devices.

There is no GFCI breaker in the line to the plug.

The problem exists even when the car is set to draw only 16 amps.

The charging is fine with the HPC.

Any ideas?

 

[ChargeIt!]

warranty exchange ...

(the EVSE not the car :biggrin

 

[vfx]

warranty exchange ...

(the EVSE not the car :biggrin

agree

 

[Doug_G]

Charge Rates

I charge my car nightly, but it rarely takes as much as an hour and a half to complete (standard mode).

Is there any advantage to backing off the home connector from 70A to, say, 48A or less?

Does the charge rate affect the lifetime of the batteries?

Does the efficiency of charging change, either due to losses in the charging system/batteries or due to cooling system operation?

Would it change the noise levels in the garage, or how hot it gets in there?

 

[JRP3]

The lower charge rate should be better across the board. If you don't need the speed dial it back.

 

[PopSmith]

I charge my car nightly, but it rarely takes as much as an hour and a half to complete (standard mode).

Is there any advantage to backing off the home connector from 70A to, say, 48A or less?

Does the charge rate affect the lifetime of the batteries?

From the reading I've done here I believe the lower the amperage and voltage you use to charge the car the better it is for the batteries in the long run.

If you can calculate how much energy you need to put into the batteries to top it off each night you could dial the amperage (and, I believe, voltage) back to were it would finish just a bit before you need to leave in the morning for work.

However, someone here may be able to give you some solid evidence. :tongue: