Charging etiquette on the local news

[andrewket]

Turns out I was right. If your car is locked and charging on a J1772, if you push and release the unlock button on the handle (leaving it connected), the charge port will light up, showing either flashing green if it's still charging or solid green if it's done.

So a sign saying "If you need to charge, push and release the button - if the charge port is solid green (not pulsating), you can unplug me" would work. The J1772 adaptor seems to stay locked to the car as long as the car is locked.

Have you actually seen flashing green when you do this? More likely you are disconnecting the pilot signal in preparation for removal. When you release the button the pilot signal comes back and the car starts charging again. I suppose if the car is done it won't start flashing again. But I still don't like this idea. If someone is using visible tesla or the like you just sent an alarm to the owner.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Most Chargers charge by the hour. If someone unplugs them early, the cost of up to an hour is lost.

Some chargers have a plug in fee + cost for electricity used. If someone unplugs a car early, the owner is out the plug in fee (other at high as $4.95)

Even if it's a free charger, forcing them to use gas, when they did not want or need to, that is $4 a gallon.

Unplugging someone is costing them money without their permision. I stand by my (admittedly extreme) examples.

Thank you, I had forgotten that others pay to charge. Superchargers have spoiled us!

- - - Updated - - -

That's an interesting view. So, Volt owners should have enough gasoline in their vehicles, so they can get home in case a Model S owner unplugs him at the charging station, but you don't need to take care to have enough charge left to get home.

Presumably, the reason you are charging is because you don't have sufficient range to get to your next destination. Isn't that the whole point of charging?. This has nothing to do with planning. You can't plan more range into your battery than it can deliver. And I don't think most people here are discussing a Model S owner unplugging a Volt. I believe the issue is primarily among those EVs that have a very limited range. So replace Model S with Leaf in your above statement. A Leaf has a 75 mile EPA range. A Leaf owner must charge at almost every destination in order to have sufficient range to get back home, or to the next location. This has nothing to do with planning.

Here's an example: I have to drive my hypothetical Leaf 35 miles to Phoenix in order to attend a class. It's also 110º outside. No amount of planning is going to get me back home without needing to charge at my destination. Except, all the spots are filled up with real EVs and a Volt. I need to recoup half my battery, which takes about 2 hours. My class is also 2 hours, so I have to charge the entire time I'm there. I need to plug in or I can't get home. So what am I going to do? Should I be polite and do nothing, hoping that one of those cars will move and make space for me? But if nobody moves in the next hour, I won't get home. Do I unplug someone and risk getting them angry? And if I do, which one do I unplug? If you must unplug someone, the clear choice is to unplug whoever is finished charging. If there is no indication, then unplug the car that needs charging the least. In a lot of Leafs and a Volt, that would be the Volt.

Charging triage. It's like using the laundry at the apartment complex where you lived when you went to college. All the machines are finished, but full of clothes. You wait, but nobody comes. You have a job interview and need clean clothes, what do you do? You empty one of the machines, that's what!

Fortunately I have a Model S, so I don't have to deal with any of these issues other than in hypothetical scenarios in online discussion forums!

 

[Peter_M]

Have you actually seen flashing green when you do this? More likely you are disconnecting the pilot signal in preparation for removal. When you release the button the pilot signal comes back and the car starts charging again. I suppose if the car is done it won't start flashing again. But I still don't like this idea. If someone is using visible tesla or the like you just sent an alarm to the owner.

Yes, I tested this today and saw the flashing green after pushing the button, while the car was locked. I'm not advocating people unplugging others randomly - only if the driver of the car that is plugged in says it's OK. I'll put a sign like this on my car when charging if there are other spaces where someone could park and charge, and if I don't expect to be back at the car within minutes of when it's done charging. Otherwise, I'll put up a "call me if you need to charge" sign.

 

[Cottonwood]

Yes, I tested this today and saw the flashing green after pushing the button, while the car was locked. I'm not advocating people unplugging others randomly - only if the driver of the car that is plugged in says it's OK. I'll put a sign like this on my car when charging if there are other spaces where someone could park and charge, and if I don't expect to be back at the car within minutes of when it's done charging. Otherwise, I'll put up a "call me if you need to charge" sign.

Check this with a few brands of pay chargers. I do think that you are interrupting the pilot signal momentarily. I bet this ends the session on some pay chargers, and to keep charging, another authorization may need to be done. If so, then you just stopped all charging for this car unless you want to authorize and pay for continued charging.

 

[liuping]

Here's an example: I have to drive my hypothetical Leaf 35 miles to Phoenix in order to attend a class. It's also 110º outside. No amount of planning is going to get me back home without needing to charge at my destination. Except, all the spots are filled up with real EVs and a Volt. I need to recoup half my battery, which takes about 2 hours. My class is also 2 hours, so I have to charge the entire time I'm there. I need to plug in or I can't get home. So what am I going to do? Should I be polite and do nothing, hoping that one of those cars will move and make space for me? But if nobody moves in the next hour, I won't get home. Do I unplug someone and risk getting them angry? And if I do, which one do I unplug? If you must unplug someone, the clear choice is to unplug whoever is finished charging. If there is no indication, then unplug the car that needs charging the least. In a lot of Leafs and a Volt, that would be the Volt.

Then problem in this scenario, is no one knows if the Volt can get home either. Or that the other EVs don't have a more than enough charge already to get home and would be better candidates. Why would the Leaf owner get priority over the Volt getting home? If no charging is available, he should wait until after class and try again. He'll be home late, but he'll live.

I would say someone living in Phoenix and needs 70+ miles round trips made a foolish decision when he purchased the Leaf. But that decision was their to make and they have to live with it. It does not give them the right to unplug other people without permission.

If it's becomes the wild west out there with everyone just unplugging anyone they feel needs it less, that poor Leaf owner will eventually find he's the recipient of an "I need it more than you" unplugging when he comes out of class someday when he really needs to be somewhere.

Charging triage. It's like using the laundry at the apartment complex where you lived when you went to college. All the machines are finished, but full of clothes. You wait, but nobody comes. You have a job interview and need clean clothes, what do you do? You empty one of the machines, that's what!

But in laundry triage, the laundry is done, so removing does not effect the other person. Unplugging a Volt is like stopping a load before it's finished, dumping the wet cloths in a cart and put in your cloth, because you need to finish your laundry before a hot date.

 

[Ampster]

A new law in Califormia, AB 475, makes it illegal to occupy an EV charging space if you're not charging. That means as soon as your batteries are full you are illegally occupying that space. That doesnt work well at airport s either.
Note: corrected to read AB 475

 

[liuping]

A new law in Califormia, AB 425, makes it illegal to occupy an EV charging space if you're not charging. That means as soon as your batteries are full you are illegally occupying that space. That doesnt work well at airport s either.

The lawmakers never think of the unintended consequences of their laws. One possible result of this law is EV haters unplugging EVs left and right, and then calling them in as illegally parked.

 

[dsm363]

Then problem in this scenario, is no one knows if the Volt can get home either. Or that the other EVs don't have a more than enough charge already to get home and would be better candidates. Why would the Leaf owner get priority over the Volt getting home? If no charging is available, he should wait until after class and try again. He'll be home late, but he'll live.

I would say someone living in Phoenix and needs 70+ miles round trips made a foolish decision when he purchased the Leaf. But that decision was their to make and they have to live with it. It does not give them the right to unplug other people without permission.

If it's becomes the wild west out there with everyone just unplugging anyone they feel needs it less, that poor Leaf owner will eventually find he's the recipient of an "I need it more than you" unplugging when he comes out of class someday when he really needs to be somewhere.



But in laundry triage, the laundry is done, so removing does not effect the other person. Unplugging a Volt is like stopping a load before it's finished, dumping the wet cloths in a cart and put in your cloth, because you need to finish your laundry before a hot date.

I agree a Leaf owner in Phoenix needing to drive 70 miles a day put themselves in that position. So did the Volt driver who only carries one gallon of gas so their car lighter and drives around on an effective 35 mile range EV. They did that to themselves. Yes people shouldn't unplug other people but a Volt can get home (even if calling AAA for gas) much easier than an EV plugging into a 120V outlet.

If a Leaf only charged to half full wouldn't you call that foolish? Well the Volt in this scenario is only fueling to 10% or so range (300 mile range with gas). I call that foolish.

 

[liuping]

I agree a Leaf owner in Phoenix needing to drive 70 miles a day put themselves in that position. So did the Volt driver who only carries one gallon of gas so their car lighter and drives around on an effective 35 mile range EV. They did that to themselves. Yes people shouldn't unplug other people but a Volt can get home (even if calling AAA for gas) much easier than an EV plugging into a 120V outlet.

There is no way to know if the Volt has one gallon or eight. He have had a full tank just this morning, but is now low. He may not have AAA. He may just like to run in pure EV mode. There is no way to know the circumstances. Why does the Leaf owner get to make the call he's more important?

And what about the next Leaf that comes along as thinks he needs it more than the Leaf already plugged in? After all he's been there a while, I'm sure he can get home?

No car has more of a right than a car already plugged in. If you have to wait, so be it.

 

[EchoDelta]

I agree a Leaf owner in Phoenix needing to drive 70 miles a day put themselves in that position. So did the Volt driver who only carries one gallon of gas so their car lighter and drives around on an effective 35 mile range EV. They did that to themselves. Yes people shouldn't unplug other people but a Volt can get home (even if calling AAA for gas) much easier than an EV plugging into a 120V outlet.

If a Leaf only charged to half full wouldn't you call that foolish? Well the Volt in this scenario is only fueling to 10% or so range (300 mile range with gas). I call that foolish.

So? I posit its Irrelevant- doesn't give other people the right to unplug them.

 

[dsm363]

There is no way to know if the Volt has one gallon or eight. He have had a full tank just this morning, but is now low. He may not have AAA. He may just like to run in pure EV mode. There is no way to know the circumstances. Why does the Leaf owner get to make the call he's more important?

And what about the next Leaf that comes along as thinks he needs it more than the Leaf already plugged in? After all he's been there a while, I'm sure he can get home?

No car has more of a right than a car already plugged in. If you have to wait, so be it.

I agree with you but you mentioned people who purposely drive around with one gallon of gas. I'm talking about those people. But yes, you can't tell from the outside of the car.

Not knowing anything though the Volt had a much higher likelihood of people able to refuel faster and easier than a pure EV. Isn't that the main selling point after all?

 

[liuping]

If a Leaf only charged to half full wouldn't you call that foolish? Well the Volt in this scenario is only fueling to 10% or so range (300 mile range with gas). I call that foolish.

But does the foolish Volt owner get priority over the foolish Leaf owner? Does the non foolish Volt owner get priority over the foolish Leaf owner?

Should we check everyone to see how much charge they started with that day, and unplug anyone we thing was not wise enough to charge the amount they would have?

 

[dsm363]

So? I posit its Irrelevant- doesn't give other people the right to unplug them.

And again, I agree. People shouldn't unplug others but the Volt does have a gas backup. That's the point of the car.

 

[liuping]

I agree with you but you mentioned people who purposely drive around with one gallon of gas. I'm talking about those people. But yes, you can't tell from the outside of the car.

Not knowing anything though the Volt had a much higher likelihood of people able to refuel faster and easier than a pure EV. Isn't that the main selling point after all?

Yes, it is a selling point, but the tank is not always full. There is not much reason to fill it if you never use gas.

A better "likelihood" is not really a good enough reason to possibly strand someone else (or at a minimum, cost them extra time and or money) so a Leaf owner does not have to wait his turn.

 

[dsm363]

But does the foolish Volt owner get priority over the foolish Leaf owner? Does the non foolish Volt owner get priority over the foolish Leaf owner?

Should we check everyone to see how much charge they started with that day, and unplug anyone we thing was not wise enough to charge the amount they would have?

This kind of of a circular argument.

Yes, people shouldn't unplug other people but we have limited resources. If someone is unplugged then yes, people should stay by the car or leave a sign and take responsibility and yes, a BEV likely needs the charge more than a car with a gas backup.

 

[liuping]

And again, I agree. People shouldn't unplug others but the Volt does have a gas backup. That's the point of the car.

The back up is irrelevant and may not even be usable.

The point of the car is it's an EV for short trips/commutes, and a gas car for long trips. If you are not planning a long trip, the gas is not needed.

Why should a Leaf owner ever get to force a Volt to use gas so he can get home sooner on electricity?

 

[liuping]

This kind of of a circular argument.

Yes, people shouldn't unplug other people but we have limited resources. If someone is unplugged then yes, people should stay by the car or leave a sign and take responsibility and yes, a BEV likely needs the charge more than a car with a gas backup.

Why not just say don't unplug others period?

So someone has to wait longer than they wanted too. Life goes on.

No one should just decide they are more important or entitled to a charge at the expense of others.

 

[dsm363]

Yes, it is a selling point, but the tank is not always full. There is not much reason to fill it if you never use gas.

A better "likelihood" is not really a good enough reason to possibly strand someone else (or at a minimum, cost them extra time and or money) so a Leaf owner does not have to wait his turn.

There is a very big reason to fill it if you only have a 35 mile EV range. If you decide to drive someplace where you must use public charging I order to get him you have to account for blocked charging or rude people unplugging you. Shouldn't happen but it does. If you decide to risk it and have the option of adding gas to skip public charging that is your decision.
If I only charged my Model S to 35 miles a day and scrambled for public charging everywhere I went people would say 'why don't you just charge the car to full?'

 

[dsm363]

Why not just say don't unplug others period?

So someone has to wait longer than they wanted too. Life goes on.

No one should just decide they are more important or entitled to a charge at the expense of others.

That's what I just said. People shouldn't unplug others but they do and they will.

If you've heard of ICEing then you know people don't always do what they should. If I had a car with a 300 mile range I would want at least enough backup in order to get home or a gas station.

 

[JST]

The back up is irrelevant and may not even be usable.

The point of the car is it's an EV for short trips/commutes, and a gas car for long trips. If you are not planning a long trip, the gas is not needed.

Why should a Leaf owner ever get to force a Volt to use gas so he can get home sooner on electricity?

The back up is entirely relevant. The back up means charging is a convenience for a Volt, not a necessity. That is literally the only reason to buy a Volt. If a Volt owner chooses to cripple their back up capability by running without gas, that's kind of silly (and probably not something most Volt owners do...or else they wouldn't have bought a Volt). Honestly, if I had a Volt, given the increasing number of pure BEV cars out there, I'd feel kind of guilty about taking up a public charger. But that's just me.

Anyway, as I said up thread, since we are still in the early stages of infrastructure build-out, I'd hope that everyone would pitch in and help out. If someone drives a PHEV and someone with a BEV needs a charge, I would hope the PHEV driver would step aside and let the BEV go first. Similarly, if one comes back to their PHEV and finds an apologetic note from a BEV owner, I'd hope that in the spirit of community the PHEV driver would shrug and say, ok, she needed it more than I did, and I hope she got home.

But (again to repeat myself) maybe I am wrong about that.