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Chargegate older Model S
- Thread starter 4hourrule
- Start date
From what I read on 057' site the 100 packs are a lot better and not limited like the smaller packs. That said, they aren't going to be near as fast as the newer ones.
All Tesla’s will continue to lose charging speed as the battery degrades and the more you use superchargers. Tesla does this in order to protect the battery so they don’t have to pay to replace it under warranty. Regardless of the year or battery they will all start losing charging speed. The lower the miles and the less use of superchargers the better the charging speed will be. There are other factors that will limit charging speed like a busy supercharger, the closer the supercharger to the power supply the faster charging speed it will get etc. I actually had my 2020 Model S Performance get over 250kw at the supercharger, it peaked at 252kw. I’ve owned several Tesla Model S and X’s and the best they all had peaked at was around 220kw.True but at age 65 I don't have disposable income like I used to. Now I have more time than $$$.
Would rather spend $25thou and get $4000 at point of sale vs spending $40+.
The only way to really know is to have the owner go to a supercharger that can get the max kw the car is capable of and take a picture. The lower the SOC the higher the charging speed will be. The only way someone could keep Tesla from limiting charging speed would be to make it never get an update. However Tesla will force updates even if you try to not let it happen.
Older Models will be limited more cause the batteries continue to get better and can handle more charging speeds without it causing significant damage. This is the biggest issue with EV’s cause in order for them ever to charge at speeds that more owners will think about switching from an ice vehicle to an EV is way too high to not cause significant damage to all current batteries available. I believe there are currently some EV’s that claim they can charge at 350kw, maybe even higher but no chargers exist that I know of that can charge at that kw, nor do I believe they allows a car to reach those kw knowing it would cause the battery to fail prematurely and require them replacing the battery. I believe the Taycan is supposed to be able to charge at 350kw maybe even 450kw. But that’s just deceptive advertising.
This was my late 2020 Model S Performance peaking at 252kw with 10K miles. I would recommend buying a 2020 with a manufacturer date of September or later. They have upgraded 100 batteries that get more range and charge faster. That’s the only way you’ll be able to charge for 20 min and get 2 hrs of driving. No other previous Tesla Model will be capable of that.
I think the statement that "All Tesla’s will continue to lose charging speed as the battery degrades and the more you use superchargers" is a bit extreme.
I owned a mid-2016 MS90D for 7.5 years, put about 80k miles on it, with about 45% of my total miles and charging being by supercharging. It actually would charge faster, with less overall charging time, at the end of that ownership period than when it was brand new. This is a combination of changes which Tesla made to support higher peak charging rates, up from 120kW when new to 150kW that I've seen the past 1-1.5 years, as well as the capabilities of V3 superchargers with less impact for risk of sharing stalls.
I believe much of the "chargegate" situation which @4hourrule references is really to the 85pack, especially early 85 packs. I never say any of that applied to my mid-2016 90D pack, and I'd expect a 2017 100D would be even less at risk.
Now, having said all that, I think the expectation of 200 miles of driving with a 20 minute charge is not realistic for say a 2017 vehicle. I did find with my MS90D that abetterrouteplanner did a pretty decent prediction. You can go in and select the model configuration and then look at typical long range routes which you'd take. If you are looking at something like a 2016-2017 vintage vehicle, you might configure it to assume something like 8-9% pack degradation in the settings, and then look at what it shows you for a variety of routes. I actually found over the past year that I could meet or maybe slightly beat it's overall trip times, but typically within maybe just a few minutes (say +/- 10 min) on an overall 500-600 mile trip. Some of that is of course a function of the route, spacing of superchargers, weather, etc., but probably the best way you can compare say a 2017 vs a later 2021-now vintage car.
Just my two cents. Good luck on your decision.
I owned a mid-2016 MS90D for 7.5 years, put about 80k miles on it, with about 45% of my total miles and charging being by supercharging. It actually would charge faster, with less overall charging time, at the end of that ownership period than when it was brand new. This is a combination of changes which Tesla made to support higher peak charging rates, up from 120kW when new to 150kW that I've seen the past 1-1.5 years, as well as the capabilities of V3 superchargers with less impact for risk of sharing stalls.
I believe much of the "chargegate" situation which @4hourrule references is really to the 85pack, especially early 85 packs. I never say any of that applied to my mid-2016 90D pack, and I'd expect a 2017 100D would be even less at risk.
Now, having said all that, I think the expectation of 200 miles of driving with a 20 minute charge is not realistic for say a 2017 vehicle. I did find with my MS90D that abetterrouteplanner did a pretty decent prediction. You can go in and select the model configuration and then look at typical long range routes which you'd take. If you are looking at something like a 2016-2017 vintage vehicle, you might configure it to assume something like 8-9% pack degradation in the settings, and then look at what it shows you for a variety of routes. I actually found over the past year that I could meet or maybe slightly beat it's overall trip times, but typically within maybe just a few minutes (say +/- 10 min) on an overall 500-600 mile trip. Some of that is of course a function of the route, spacing of superchargers, weather, etc., but probably the best way you can compare say a 2017 vs a later 2021-now vintage car.
Just my two cents. Good luck on your decision.
airborne spoon
Active Member
Naw my old pack I would SC 80% of the time and when I had it removed it was still in excellent condition getting 235 miles at 100%
I had two Model S, a 2014 85 and a 2015 70D. Both were significantly reduced in charge speed over the years. It would take about 30% more time compared to when they were new. I think that is the case with all older Teslas these days. If you have time, it's not a big deal. I drove over 500k miles in those two and the majority of that was when they were reduced in charge speed. I always found ways to use the time to do some work or plan meals or took naps. LOL
If you can find a decent Model S that still has free supercharging, you have free energy which is a bog deal if you drive a lot. Might be worth the extra 10 min at the supercharger. If you don't drive much, neither charge speed nor free supercharging matter much anyways.
If you can find a decent Model S that still has free supercharging, you have free energy which is a bog deal if you drive a lot. Might be worth the extra 10 min at the supercharger. If you don't drive much, neither charge speed nor free supercharging matter much anyways.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
This is simply untrue. My S75 charged FASTER after 7 years and 175,000 miles than it did when it was new. The original 60/70/85 packs are the only ones that really got nerfed.
Rider668
Member
I have a chargegated 85 pack. When new it peaked at 120kW (if you could find a supercharger!), now it peaks at 130kW following the post chargegate updates. Overall, a full charge does take longer however as the rate tapers off more sharply. Like others have said, I don’t find it a problem.
The slightly problematic early 90 packs degrade faster in terms of capacity than the 85s so once you get above 100000 miles there often isn’t really a range difference, so 85s can still be a good choice.
Have seen a lot of 75s for sale. If you charge from 15% or lower, how many miles do you get after 20min Charge? Thanks
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
A bit hard to estimate as I sold the car.
Peak charge rate on the 75 is right around 20%, so I’d generally try to pull in to superchargers around 10-15%.
Roughly speaking I’d say you average about 100kw for the first 20 minutes, assuming optimal conditions, which would be ~33kwh into the car. At my lifetime observed consumption of 315 wh/mi, that’s about 108 real world miles in favorable temperate conditions.
@4hourrule - here's real world data from my June 2016 build MS90D from 4th quarter last year. Plot is composite of charging curves collected over about 5k miles of driving, and roughly 45 supercharging sessions.
If I filter and look just for charging sessions where I added between 120-140 miles, but with my ending SOC below 80%, the total charging time tends to be more like 25-30 minutes, not 20 minutes. I do have two sessions in my dataset, one from 17% to 70%, adding 143 RM at 28 minutes and another from 26 to 70% adding 119 RM while took 25 minutes.
That's what I have seen too. That early drop off is the killer. If it could stay up for another 5-10 minutes it would be a good Traveler, the ID4 has a great Charge low in the Pack for an EV and is a good Traveler (for an EV) but it's DC Fast Charge structure sucks. Still when Tesla opens up to non Tesla it will be better.
Older Tesla still looks good since most of time will be Charged at home for local use and love App for precondition interior before entering Car. VWs App is a total joke.
Older Tesla still looks good since most of time will be Charged at home for local use and love App for precondition interior before entering Car. VWs App is a total joke.
