CHAdeMO Adapter

[hiroshiy]

In Japanese order page, the CHAdeMO adapter is included, and it basically says:
By enabling the hardware and purchasing the adapter, you can use 50kW CHAdeMO charging station network. The hardware is already enabled on Model S with Supercharger enabled. You can charge maximum 240km per hour.

So this sounds similar to @jerry33 said above.

 

[brianman]

It would be clearer if they called it a DC charging activation fee, as it's tied to all DC charging, not just Supercharging.

Indeed. That was my internal representation of what they were trying to say from day 1 of the CHAdeMO adapter page showing up.

 

[Blathering1]

I am the OP and am tracking the CHAdeMo adapter progress as I just installed a CHAdeMo DC Fast Charger... just to torture myself since I own an MS. This is at a commercial site, but not at a (Nissan) dealer or the like, and will be open to the public.

One assumption is that most Model S cars, except for 60s without Supercharging, would be able to use an adapter without other upgrades. I should therefore, be able to provide an adapter at the site for MS users to benefit from (barring other logistical challenges such as how to secure the adapter).

Of Note, the Eaton DC Fast Charger has 5 banks with large 10KW conversion bays. The specs require a 200 amp three phase panel. The unit is BIG-- it is 1000lbs and looks like a very full sized gas pump. If the unit were a 120KW, it would be 8-10 feet tall! Tesla has quite an elegant solution for their superchargers.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Blathering, where did you install the Chademo station? Who paid for it?

 

[Gizmotoy]

Of Note, the Eaton DC Fast Charger has 5 banks with large 10KW conversion bays. The specs require a 200 amp three phase panel. The unit is BIG-- it is 1000lbs and looks like a very full sized gas pump. If the unit were a 120KW, it would be 8-10 feet tall! Tesla has quite an elegant solution for their superchargers.

Well, to be fair, you could probably make that giant CHAdeMo unit look tiny and nice if buried most of it in the ground or otherwise out of sight, like Tesla does. I'm sure the Tesla equipment is smaller since the individual chargers were originally designed to travel with the car, but they're both pretty big. The Supercharging stations that have the electrical business above-ground, like Gilroy, are also quite massive. Two to three parking spaces full of equipment powers the 8 (or is it 10) bays in Gilroy, and there may be more still underground, I can't dig up the construction pics.

 

[Jolinar]

I just wish Tesla would release their proprietary SuperCharging protocol and specifications so other manufacturers (of charging equipment and/or cars) could use it too. Wouldn't mind licensing fees if reasonable priced. It's not helping to EV adoption to have private protocols... Can you imagine what would happen if USB would be proprietary and nobody could use it?
Nowadays fast charging stations in Europe are build with CCS, CHAdeMO and 43kW Mennekes plugs. How can Tesla plug dominate the market if other can't participate?

PS: I am not saying to open SuperCharging stations to other manufacturers. This is Tesla's big advantage and Tesla should monetize it accordingly.

 

[Johan]

Nowadays fast charging stations in Europe are build with CCS, CHAdeMO and 43kW Mennekes plugs. How can Tesla plug dominate the market if other can't participate?

By selling the best cars in the highest numbers.

 

[Cosmacelf]

AFAIK, Tesla does not bury any equipment. The Superchargers themselves are small in comparison to other DC chargers. This is probably because only Tesla liquid cools the electronics inside the Superchargers. They have liquid coolant running around, maybe a compressor (on that I'm not sure), and a giant fan to blow out the heat. Almost all other electrical conversion boxes/systems just use passive air cooling (with fans) requiring much more space.

Also note that a big chunk of a Supercharger station's equipment isn't Tesla made at all, but is the transformer and switch gear - those boxes are typically bigger than a single Tesla Supercharger box.

 

[David99]

AFAIK, Tesla does not bury any equipment. The Superchargers themselves are small in comparison to other DC chargers. This is probably because only Tesla liquid cools the electronics inside the Superchargers. They have liquid coolant running around, maybe a compressor (on that I'm not sure), and a giant fan to blow out the heat. Almost all other electrical conversion boxes/systems just use passive air cooling (with fans) requiring much more space.

Actually the Superchargers are larger. The part that holds the cable/plug isn't the charger. The actual units are pretty big and then you have the transformer that is another big box.

Here you can see Tesla Model S / X: Supercharger Onalaska Wisconsin NOW OPEN! - YouTube

 

[Cosmacelf]

Actually the Superchargers are larger. The part that holds the cable/plug isn't the charger.

Yes, I know that the actual electronics are in a separate cabinet. I still stand by my assertion that Tesla's units are smaller - or at least equal size. Here are some examples:

First, each of these cabinets is a Tesla supercharger. Each cabinet charges two stalls:

Now here are some DC quick charge CHAdeMO chargers - note that each of these cabinets only charges ONE stall:

And when you consider, Tesla does 120kW charging versus these cabinets that do 50 kW...

 

[Cottonwood]

AFAIK, Tesla does not bury any equipment. The Superchargers themselves are small in comparison to other DC chargers. This is probably because only Tesla liquid cools the electronics inside the Superchargers. They have liquid coolant running around, maybe a compressor (on that I'm not sure), and a giant fan to blow out the heat. Almost all other electrical conversion boxes/systems just use passive air cooling (with fans) requiring much more space.

This seems to be a natural outgrowth of the fact that the basic charger in an MS is liquid cooled. The Supercharger cabinet uses 12 of these basic modules. I think that the heat transport liquid is just a classic antifreeze water blend; in the car, there is a heat pump that can cool this liquid if needed. In several of the California locations, Gilroy, for example, you can walk up to the back of the Supercharger cabinets. If you look in that big cooling vent with the warm air blowing in your face from an active Supercharger, you can see that it is just a typical car radiator style, liquid to air, heat exchanger in front of an electric fan that is used to get rid of the waste heat.

 

[hiroshiy]

Yesterday I was able to take photo of CHAdeMO adapter for US and JP cars and Panasonic 200V adapter for UMC (20A). Don't know these are final versions but they are coming!

 

[Dave EV]

Yes, I know that the actual electronics are in a separate cabinet. I still stand by my assertion that Tesla's units are smaller - or at least equal size.

The Nissan QC is the smallest CHAdeMO station (also the cheapest) - about 1/3rd the size of the Eaton/Delta/ABB units, but they are limited 44 kW instead of slightly over 50 kW like most of the others.

 

[hiroshiy]

Thought Nichikon was the smallest but I'll check after I get home.

 

[PhilBa]

Yes, I know that the actual electronics are in a separate cabinet. I still stand by my assertion that Tesla's units are smaller - or at least equal size. Here are some examples:

...[pictures removed for clarity]
And when you consider, Tesla does 120kW charging versus these cabinets that do 50 kW...

Here is a good apples to apples comparison - the "mobile supercharger" which has all the components in one spot.

As you can see the size is about 2/3 of the chademo EVSE. Of course, this package supports 2 charge stations and is at least 120KW (or maybe 135KW).

 

[liuping]

Here is a good apples to apples comparison - the "mobile supercharger" which has all the components in one spot.

As you can see the size is about 2/3 of the chademo EVSE. Of course, this package supports 2 charge stations and is at least 120KW (or maybe 135KW).

Wow that is compact. Much smaller then the enclosures they usually build around the chargers.

I like the self contained "deliver and hook it up to power" aspect of the system. I wonder why they do not use them more often. It seems like sites could come on line very fast, with minimal cost.


edit: nevermind, the back is pretty ugly, so not so good for a permanent install:

 

[wycolo]

Looks to be right handy for any zombie attack.
--

 

[hiroshiy]

Thought Nichikon was the smallest but I'll check after I get home.

Yes Nichikon was a bit smaller among CHAdeMO chargers with 50kW.
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Yesterday Tesla guy presented at CHAdeMO association meeting and he asked the association and manufacturers whether it's possible to increase power. I asked him how much power the adapter accepts, and he answered it's rated 100kW, 500V 200A.

 

[Dave EV]

Yes Nichikon was a bit smaller among CHAdeMO chargers with 50kW.

I guess technically it's slightly smaller than the Nissan QC in volume, but because it's slightly wider/deeper so has a larger footprint than the Nissan QC. They're basically the same. Still haven't seen the Nichikon unit here in the US, though.

Good to see that the adapter can handle 100 kW, too bad no CHAdeMO stations are pushing that amount of power yet.

 

[swegman]

hiroshiy, what was the response to the tesla guy's question about whether the CHAdeMO chargers can increase the power output?