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Optimum Opti coat can be removed via abrasion. Polishing or compounding will remove it completely. Typical car washing, sun exposure, rain etc will not remove it.
These two are incompatible if you use poli seal first. However opti coat is not really a gloss enhancer it's a paint protectant. They don't make any wild claims about adding tons of gloss, slickness, or shine. You could top OC with a LSP (wax, glaze, etc) but it won't last very long. Poli seal on top of opti coat isn't the best option to add gloss IMO.
It can take 30 days for OC to fully cure and harden. Poli seal has a mild abrasive polish and sealers. It's fine to use poli seal to clean up OC after a while, but probably not recommended until its fully cured.
IMO I prefer more "warmth and depth" to the color than gloss. The car is quite glossy already I want my blue to be seen as a deep blue instead of a blue mirror.
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The OptimiumCare web site is really not clear on these two products. But I think they both serve the same purposes, the 2.0 with claims that are more advanced. The 2.0 is more difficult to apply and application takes much greater care. Therefore I'll test both against each other and against the other brands.
Don't know how I'll evaluate warmth. But I have good idea for a consistent test of depth.
All the finishes are now on hand except the Meguairs, which should arrive Monday. The test panels are all set up and I'll begin applying each finish next week. Each will be applied according to the manufacturers directions and allowed to cure/dry for 4-5 days. I'll then test the gloss and depth of each one. So the first test results should be posted in about two weeks. Here's a photo of all the stuff.
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
Fantastic Artsci, I can't wait to see the results. I'm considering applying CQuartz or Opti-coat after my post-delivery detail removes and repairs all my scratches.
Things are not off to as fast a start as I had hoped. In fact, I haven’t been satisfied with the initial test panels I had set up (the surfaces were not sufficiently smooth and perfect), and I’ve now been giving a lot more thought to how I can make this test as reliable as possible. Here’s what I’ve concluded and what I’ll do to improve the standards.
First, each product has to be tested under strictly controlled conditions, which means that they have to be evaluated on the same size and shape panel. Also, to avoid variations that might occur as a result of differences in the curvature of car body surfaces, they can’t be subject so the kind of side-by-side evaluations common to the comparative tests offered on the Internet. In fact, the panels must be absolutely flat and exactly the same size, with no surface variations of any kind. Accordingly I’ve purchased ten 12”x12” Dibond aluminum-faced panels and ten sheet aluminum panels. These are perfectly flat panels. They have been pre-painted in gloss red with an automotive-type finish. Each of the finish products will be tested on these two types of panels.
Second, application of the finishes has to be done under controlled conditions, with the same ambient light and temperatures. That means the finishes must be applied indoors in the same place and spot. After application each panel will remain indoors for five days to allow the finish to “cure.” Then gloss will be recorded with a gloss meter and the depth of the finish will be tested using a Pyrex Vista Cylinder. The Pyrex cylinder is a tall-form beaker about 15” high with fine graduated markings on the side. It will be set on each panel and the quality and detail of the markings reflected on each panel will be photographed and rated on a 1-10 scale. This should be a good measure of finish “depth.” Finally, each panel will be flushed with water and the beading and sheeting qualities will be photographed and rated on the same 1-10 scale.
After these initial measurements are taken the panels will be set outside and exposed to the elements for two-week periods. Every two weeks the panels will be washed with the same car wash and retested using the same methods. I’ll do this for 6 months, reporting the results as I go.
If I sound obsessed about this, I am. If I do this right, I’m hoping it will become the go-to test for these products. I’m sure I’ll get some manufacturers upset, but I really do want to cut through all of their BS about these products and see if the differences claimed do in fact stand up under controlled testing.
I’m very eager to see the results. I suspect the differences will be very minor or even negligible, but I would like to be pleasantly surprised and find a product that testing reveals to be clearly superior.
First, each product has to be tested under strictly controlled conditions, which means that they have to be evaluated on the same size and shape panel. Also, to avoid variations that might occur as a result of differences in the curvature of car body surfaces, they can’t be subject so the kind of side-by-side evaluations common to the comparative tests offered on the Internet. In fact, the panels must be absolutely flat and exactly the same size, with no surface variations of any kind. Accordingly I’ve purchased ten 12”x12” Dibond aluminum-faced panels and ten sheet aluminum panels. These are perfectly flat panels. They have been pre-painted in gloss red with an automotive-type finish. Each of the finish products will be tested on these two types of panels.
Second, application of the finishes has to be done under controlled conditions, with the same ambient light and temperatures. That means the finishes must be applied indoors in the same place and spot. After application each panel will remain indoors for five days to allow the finish to “cure.” Then gloss will be recorded with a gloss meter and the depth of the finish will be tested using a Pyrex Vista Cylinder. The Pyrex cylinder is a tall-form beaker about 15” high with fine graduated markings on the side. It will be set on each panel and the quality and detail of the markings reflected on each panel will be photographed and rated on a 1-10 scale. This should be a good measure of finish “depth.” Finally, each panel will be flushed with water and the beading and sheeting qualities will be photographed and rated on the same 1-10 scale.
After these initial measurements are taken the panels will be set outside and exposed to the elements for two-week periods. Every two weeks the panels will be washed with the same car wash and retested using the same methods. I’ll do this for 6 months, reporting the results as I go.
If I sound obsessed about this, I am. If I do this right, I’m hoping it will become the go-to test for these products. I’m sure I’ll get some manufacturers upset, but I really do want to cut through all of their BS about these products and see if the differences claimed do in fact stand up under controlled testing.
I’m very eager to see the results. I suspect the differences will be very minor or even negligible, but I would like to be pleasantly surprised and find a product that testing reveals to be clearly superior.
Upping the science vigor. I like it. Make sure you rotate where the panels are sitting outside. I am interested in the results. Sounds like you have this very thought out.
smorgasbord
Active Member
Are you also applying a clear coat?
And, do you have any idea what kind of clear coat Tesla is using, and whether the different waxes will interact/protect differently on different base paints?
Yes, clear coat will be applied to the panels. I'd love to use the same paint chemistry as Tesla but determining that might be pretty difficult. But I'll check with my source in service. He might know for autobody repairs. If this takes extra time, that's ok as we want to get this right.
I'll do that at the very last. I frankly don't think these finishes can give much scratch protection -- that sounds like the typical BS surrounding many of these products. But we'll see for sure.
The gloss sensor I'll be using for the tests just arrived. It's an outstanding device.
I've tested it on about a dozen different surfaces around my office. I'm very happy to say that it's incredibly sensitive. I have gloss measurements ranging from less than 2.0 GS (my desktop) to over 900 GS (polished stainless steel). So I'll be able to give every product a GS rating.
The device has a calibration procedure that ensures consistent measurements relative to a baseline setting. So we'll have some very accurate tests as soon as I can set up all the samples. I will definitely be able to determine whether the manufacturer's claims stand up to rigorous measurement and I'm now sure I'll be able to rate all of the products on a reliable comparative scale. This should be very helpful as we decide which products to use on our Model Ss (and other cars).
I've tested it on about a dozen different surfaces around my office. I'm very happy to say that it's incredibly sensitive. I have gloss measurements ranging from less than 2.0 GS (my desktop) to over 900 GS (polished stainless steel). So I'll be able to give every product a GS rating.
The device has a calibration procedure that ensures consistent measurements relative to a baseline setting. So we'll have some very accurate tests as soon as I can set up all the samples. I will definitely be able to determine whether the manufacturer's claims stand up to rigorous measurement and I'm now sure I'll be able to rate all of the products on a reliable comparative scale. This should be very helpful as we decide which products to use on our Model Ss (and other cars).
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I was thinking the exact same thing. Hey artsci I would write this up in article format and shop it around some car mags seriously. You might be able to make your costs back at least.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
@artsci: First of all, kudos to you for doing this. I love you attitude when it comes to facing a question and wanting to find the best answer yourself, hence (as you put it) "cutting through the BS". And when you go about finding your answer it seems you want to do it properly, which I also like. I have some experience from medical research and the same thing applies here: if the method is flawed you might as well discard the data and any results. So I hope you like critical questions.
1) Are your plates painted with the same thicknes and number of layers as a production car? Is it the same paint chemistry? Is the clear coat the same chemistry and quality? Is the application of the paint and clear coat as meticulous and "perfect" as in a car factory?
2) Will it be correct to generalize from any results you get? I.e. will the finish on one car (Tesla) behave the same as the finish on another brand of car? Will some products be better for some colors and some brands for others? What about metallic v.s. non-metallic? What about bright v.s. dark colors?
3) By which criteria will you be judging the products? Gloss? Percieved depth of color? Protection? All of the above? (I know that glossiness can me measured and quantified, but I think there are some aspects to a car's finish that can only be judged subjectivly such as "color depth" and "glow". Someone on this forum wrote somewhere about shine/gloss v.s. color depth something like: "I have a blue car and I want to look at a deep, rich blue car, not a blue mirror" - i.e. sometimes less is more when it comes to gloss).
Whatever your results end up being someone will always be able to say: Well, that only applies to your painted and clear-coated aluminum plates, not to car X or car Y, but if you do it right I would put more faith in your results than I would any manufacturers (of course heavily biased) claims. Good luck!
1) Are your plates painted with the same thicknes and number of layers as a production car? Is it the same paint chemistry? Is the clear coat the same chemistry and quality? Is the application of the paint and clear coat as meticulous and "perfect" as in a car factory?
2) Will it be correct to generalize from any results you get? I.e. will the finish on one car (Tesla) behave the same as the finish on another brand of car? Will some products be better for some colors and some brands for others? What about metallic v.s. non-metallic? What about bright v.s. dark colors?
3) By which criteria will you be judging the products? Gloss? Percieved depth of color? Protection? All of the above? (I know that glossiness can me measured and quantified, but I think there are some aspects to a car's finish that can only be judged subjectivly such as "color depth" and "glow". Someone on this forum wrote somewhere about shine/gloss v.s. color depth something like: "I have a blue car and I want to look at a deep, rich blue car, not a blue mirror" - i.e. sometimes less is more when it comes to gloss).
Whatever your results end up being someone will always be able to say: Well, that only applies to your painted and clear-coated aluminum plates, not to car X or car Y, but if you do it right I would put more faith in your results than I would any manufacturers (of course heavily biased) claims. Good luck!
Very good questions. As you probably are aware, I can't control for everything, particularly differences in paint chemistry from color to color and brand to brand. But the products themselves also have to work on all of the different kinds of finishes that are applied to cars today. None of these products are made for one brand of car or one kind of paint, let alone for a Model S.
The paint thickness, color, and chemistry will be uniform from test panel to test panel. But it may not match Tesla's (couldn't get the paint data from my Tesla source -- he says the company has not provided it to the service centers).
As I'll be measuring comparative differences between the products themselves I won't be able to determine how each finish may perform differently on different cars with different colors and different paints. I'd have to expand the testing exponentially to do that. And, yes, differences could well vary from color to color and car to car. But as I'll be going much further any testing I've seen has gone before, I think what I have planned will raise the bar substantially. No doubt people who have favorite products, as well as some manufacturers, will be upset with my results and challenge then. I understand, but I'd also challenge them to prove with a better test that their assumptions or biases are correct. I'll bet that I won't get any takers who'll be willing to do the work I'll be doing. People believe what they want to believe in spite of the facts or evidence. But unless someone can provide better testing methods and evidence, I'll stick by my findings.
I'll be testing gloss, depth of color (see the earlier post regarding how I plan to do that), and durability (by testing how gloss and depth of color degrade over time). Protection is another issue altogether, and to do that will require expertise and equipment way beyond what I have at my disposal.
Finally, I want to avoid as much as possible relying on my subjective judgments, which is why I'll be going to all of the trouble and expense to take this task on.
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