Canadian CHAdeMO charging

[RiverBrick]

Would love to know the math on these stations. What does $50K per station cover? How much is the actual DCFC and how much to install?

Here's another example : 7 stations for $1,276,000. It works out to $182,285 per site. Each site has a 6 kW unit too, let's say they cost $22,000 each. It still works out to an average of $160,000 per purchase and installation of a single 50 kW unit. Yikes. I am not sure if these sites are future-proofed, but NB Power has at least protected their investment with bollards based on photos on plugshare.

E-charge network for electric vehicles continues to grow in New Brunswick

 

[MarcoRP]

Hopefully, they're not getting what they claim to be getting in the picture (30A slow charging stations.)

The locations for the six DCFC units are actually in the link in post 774 of this thread (reposted here).

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/alternative-fuels/fuel-facts/ecoenergy/21738

They will probably get both types of charging stations, like the ones in NB and NS.

 

[rypalmer]

Hopefully, they're not getting what they claim to be getting in the picture (30A slow charging stations.)

The locations for the six DCFC units are actually in the link in post 774 of this thread (reposted here).

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/alternative-fuels/fuel-facts/ecoenergy/21738

The photo-op created a lot of confusion. They could have done a much better job explaining this.

 

[RiverBrick]

This surprises me, they’ve already got a working prototype Chademo for the Model 3 that’s been undergoing testing for a while.

Before the CHAdeMO adapter became available in North America in early 2015, there were regular customers beta-testing it for months. I've not heard of any such beta-program for the Model 3. Nothing for SAE Combo, nothing for CHAdeMO.

I understand that some Tesla employees have the ability to use a CHAdeMO adapter with the Model 3, but they seem to just use it when no Superchargers are available. In other words, their end-goal is just to charge, not to test the adapter.

 

[mknox]

I understand that some Tesla employees have the ability to use a CHAdeMO adapter with the Model 3, but they seem to just use it when no Superchargers are available.

My understanding is that it is just a software thing that is preventing use with the Model 3. As I mentioned previously (maybe somewhere in this thread) I heard Tesla was in no hurry to enable since Model 3 owners pay for Supercharging and Tesla would rather the business come to them than to other charging site owners. Many S and X models on the road have free Supercharging, so in that case, Tesla would be happy for you to go somewhere else.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

My understanding is that it is just a software thing that is preventing use with the Model 3. As I mentioned previously (maybe somewhere in this thread) I heard Tesla was in no hurry to enable since Model 3 owners pay for Supercharging and Tesla would rather the business come to them than to other charging site owners. Many S and X models on the road have free Supercharging, so in that case, Tesla would be happy for you to go somewhere else.

In the big scheme of things I doubt it costs them many sales. We are just to small of a market in BC. But it is definitely costing them a few. Four I know of just in my small town.

 

[MP3Mike]

My understanding is that it is just a software thing that is preventing use with the Model 3. As I mentioned previously (maybe somewhere in this thread) I heard Tesla was in no hurry to enable since Model 3 owners pay for Supercharging and Tesla would rather the business come to them than to other charging site owners. Many S and X models on the road have free Supercharging, so in that case, Tesla would be happy for you to go somewhere else.

I really doubt that is the issue, as in most cases Supercharging is cheaper, and faster, than the competitors. So the only time you would use a CHAdeMO site is when there isn't a Supercharger to use.

So the only thing it is really preventing is sales of Model 3s to people that need to drive in non-Supercharger covered areas.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I really doubt that is the issue, as in most cases Supercharging is cheaper, and faster, than the competitors. So the only time you would use a CHAdeMO site is when there isn't a Supercharger to use.

So the only thing it is really preventing is sales of Model 3s to people that need to drive in non-Supercharger covered areas.

Exactly. Like BC. There are 14 Supervhargers lications . But there are 200 plus Chademo/CCS lications either online or funded for 2019/2020. A model 3 is not a touring car choice in BC unless you have Chademo/CCS or its on a trailer.

 

[RiverBrick]

As I mentioned previously (maybe somewhere in this thread) I heard Tesla was in no hurry to enable since Model 3 owners pay for Supercharging and Tesla would rather the business come to them than to other charging site owners.

I am skeptical of this theory.

In Europe, they put a CCS port in the 3 and have announced a CCS adapter for the S/X, so they don't seem to be worried about losing business there. There aren't too many cases where someone is going to pay 600 CAD for a CHAdeMO adapter in order to recharge at 40 kW when Supercharging is an option. CHAdeMO use would overwhelmingly enhance the ownership experience in areas where there are no Superchargers. However, if for some reason people want to use CHAdeMO instead of Supercharging, Tesla will save money in the long run by not having to build additional Supercharger sites. Tesla will also make money off adapter sales.

In Quebec, there's not a week that goes by where someone says you need to buy a Kona EV, or a Bolt, or a LEAF instead of a 3, because you "can't visit the North Coast, the Lac St-Jean, or Gaspesie or Abitibi unless you can use CHAdeMO or SAE Combo plugs."

The impression is false for the Lac-St-Jean and Gaspesie because of destination charging, but impression is more powerful than reality and Tesla is losing Model 3 sales in areas where there a no Superchargers, but many CHAdeMO/SAE Combo plugs.

 

[GlenM]

I don't think it was ever Tesla's business model to have Superchargers as a money maker. The Supercharger network is an enabler for them to sell their cars. The stronger the Supercharger network, the easier it is for them to sell cars. Of course it's expensive for them to expand that network, so they're going to target areas of denser population and demand for their cars based on sales. Unfortunately that leaves large areas of Canada with out Superchargers. The prairie provinces, southern BC, Northern Ontario, etc.

Our only hope is a CHAdeMO or CCS adapter for the Model 3. With Tesla going all in with CCS in Europe, I have no doubt that they will be releasing that adapter here in North America soon. It just can't come soon enough for many of us.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I am skeptical of this theory.

In Europe, they put a CCS port in the 3 and have announced a CCS adapter for the S/X, so they don't seem to be worried about losing business there. There aren't too many cases where someone is going to pay 600 CAD for a CHAdeMO adapter in order to recharge at 40 kW when Supercharging is an option. CHAdeMO use would overwhelmingly enhance the ownership experience in areas where there are no Superchargers. However, if for some reason people want to use CHAdeMO instead of Supercharging, Tesla will save money in the long run by not having to build additional Supercharger sites. Tesla will also make money off adapter sales.

In Quebec, there's not a week that goes by where someone says you need to buy a Kona EV, or a Bolt, or a LEAF instead of a 3, because you "can't visit the North Coast, the Lac St-Jean, or Gaspesie or Abitibi unless you can use CHAdeMO or SAE Combo plugs."

The impression is false for the Lac-St-Jean and Gaspesie because of destination charging, but impression is more powerful than reality and Tesla is losing Model 3 sales in areas where there a no Superchargers, but many CHAdeMO/SAE Combo plugs.

Yepir. If you own a Leaf eplus, Bolt, Model S or X you can tour about 70 percent of the province by years end. If you own a model 3, maybe 20 percent. Lots of us here prefer the 3, but not if we can’t take it anywhere except on a narrow band on the main highway.

Again, comes down to market size. If he loses 10,000 sales over the next two years from Canadians who need a touring EV instead of a commuter car, I doubt it would matter much to Tesla. I get it. Just not worth the R and D for the adapter.

 

[MarcoRP]

Now there is an app for BC Hydro EV! This has also prompted the addition of a “new” network on PlugShare.

 

[Ledge]

Our only hope is a CHAdeMO or CCS adapter for the Model 3. With Tesla going all in with CCS in Europe, I have no doubt that they will be releasing that adapter here in North America soon. It just can't come soon enough for many of us.

I hope that is the case. It's a shame the ports for S/X are different over in Europe and we can't just use the European adapter once it is released.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Maybe the Y will be Chademo or CCS ready. Such a shame. Would much prefer a Tesla to the Leaf but starting to look like it will be a Leaf plus for us.

 

[iMoe]

Now there is an app for BC Hydro EV! This has also prompted the addition of a “new” network on PlugShare.View attachment 386445

Thanks for finding and sharing this. Looks like a Flo App clone, which is clunky on Android, but better than nothing I guess.

Someone should have asked Elon about Chadmo/CCS adapter while he was promising Saskatchewan for this year.

 

[mknox]

I really doubt that is the issue, as in most cases Supercharging is cheaper, and faster, than the competitors. So the only time you would use a CHAdeMO site is when there isn't a Supercharger to use.

I have been known to use a CHAdeMO station about a mile from a Supercharger... and I have lifetime free Supercharger access in my X. Why? Because it is at the site I am visiting and therefore I don’t have to make an extra stop.

 

[mknox]

I don't think it was ever Tesla's business model to have Superchargers as a money maker. The Supercharger network is an enabler for them to sell their cars.

Absolutely true. BUT they are losing money big time at these Supercharger sites mainly due to utility demand charges. While I agree it is a huge enabler, it is nowhere near a break even proposition for them strictly considering site operations costs. Maybe it helps them sell more cars (probably does) but it would be to their financial advantage if folks just didn’t use them, or used them sparingly.

 

[GlenM]

Absolutely true. BUT they are losing money big time at these Supercharger sites mainly due to utility demand charges. While I agree it is a huge enabler, it is nowhere near a break even proposition for them strictly considering site operations costs. Maybe it helps them sell more cars (probably does) but it would be to their financial advantage if folks just didn’t use them, or used them sparingly.

I totally agree, and that's why a Model 3 CHAdeMO or CCS adapter makes so much sense. It will reduce the pressure to rollout additional Superchargers so quickly, and reduce the financial strain.

 

[mknox]

I totally agree, and that's why a Model 3 CHAdeMO or CCS adapter makes so much sense. It will reduce the pressure to rollout additional Superchargers so quickly, and reduce the financial strain.

It could do that, but it likely wouldn't help with the financial strain related to Supercharger energy. Problem is, on large services like this, the fees are based on power (kW) way more than energy (kWh) as it is in residential situations. All it takes is 15 minutes of high demand at any point in a month to make the power bill explode.

 

[MarcoRP]

Caught this a bit off-guard on PlugShare. It seems Shell will be following Petro’s initiative.
These chargers seem to have been there since early Feb starting with a station in Red Deer, both stations currently free of charge. I’m wondering if this is also a test run or a unique business trial.