BYND Beyond Meat out of main

[tander]

For those who think dietary cholesterol intake has no effect on your levels, a vegan and a meat eater switch diets for 30 days and do a number of tests. No surprise, the vegan who ate meat had an increase in cholesterol levels, (128 to 208), and the meat eater who ate vegan had a decrease in cholesterol, (222 to 149).

It seems almost kind of negligent that this is even in question. My Grandma recently went on medication for high blood pressure. At a checkup her blood pressure was much lower than the medication should have caused. As it turned out, she had tried a lot less animal products for the week before.

 

[Swampgator]

Quiz:
following are the ingredients of three food/feed items. Two of them are fake burgers (namely @ImpossibleFoods burger and @BeyondMeat burger, respectively) and the third is premium dog food. Can you pick the latter?

Spoiler

 

[JRP3]

I could tell the difference since I'm familiar with both plant burgers, however I don't understand your point in the least, assuming you have one.

 

[commasign]

It was only a matter of time...

Arby's has flipped the vegan 'meat' trend on its head with the 'megetable,' a carrot made out of turkey that looks and tastes almost exactly like the vegetable

 

[heltok]

For those who think dietary cholesterol intake has no effect on your levels, a vegan and a meat eater switch diets for 30 days and do a number of tests. No surprise, the vegan who ate meat had an increase in cholesterol levels, (128 to 208), and the meat eater who ate vegan had a decrease in cholesterol, (222 to 149).

There is a big debate about cholesterol and it’s a pretty complex issue. It seems that high concentrations of a certain size of LDL which is common when triglycerides are high can indicate inflammation which can increase risk factors. Just looking at LDL without comparing the size of the LDL molecules seems to not be predicative of health outcomes. A lot of doctors still do this, imo they need to get current with the science... I will just quote wikipedia

Cholesterol - Wikipedia

Although there is a link between cholesterol and atherosclerosis as discussed above,[93]a 2014 meta-analysis concluded there is insufficient evidence to support the recommendation of high consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids and low consumption of total saturated fats for cardiovascular health.[94] A 2016 review concluded there was either no link between LDL and mortality or that lower LDL was linked to a higher mortality risk, especially in older adults.[95]

Low-density lipoprotein - Wikipedia

LDL can be grouped based on its size: large low density LDL particles are described as pattern A, and small high density LDL particles are pattern B. Pattern B has been associated by some with a higher risk for coronary heart disease.[10] This is thought to be because the smaller particles are more easily able to penetrate the endothelium of arterial walls. Pattern I, for intermediate, indicates that most LDL particles are very close in size to the normal gaps in the endothelium (26 nm). According to one study, sizes 19.0–20.5 nm were designated as pattern B and LDL sizes 20.6–22 nm were designated as pattern A.[11] Other studies have shown no such correlation at all.[12]

Some evidence suggests the correlation between Pattern B and CHD is stronger than the correspondence between the LDL number measured in the standard lipid profile test. Tests to measure these LDL subtype patterns have been more expensive and not widely available, so the common lipid profile test is used more often.[citation needed]

There has also been noted a correspondence between higher triglyceride levels and higher levels of smaller, denser LDL particles and alternately lower triglyceride levels and higher levels of the larger, less dense ("buoyant") LDL.[13][14]

 

[Swampgator]

I could tell the difference since I'm familiar with both plant burgers, however I don't understand your point in the least, assuming you have one.

Apparently your are a little slow

It was only a matter of time...

Arby's has flipped the vegan 'meat' trend on its head with the 'megetable,' a carrot made out of turkey that looks and tastes almost exactly like the vegetable

I love it! But I would not eat it either

 

[Swampgator]

I could tell the difference since I'm familiar with both plant burgers, however I don't understand your point in the least, assuming you have one.

Then you are not a thinker.

You already know the point, you just don't like it. The average person reading those ingredient lists would think they were all fairly similar products.
IMO they are. Fake meat is like dog food. I also think anyone feeding their dog a Vegan diet is not capable of caring for any animal.

 

[JRP3]

Then you are not a thinker.

You already know the point, you just don't like it. The average person reading those ingredient lists would think they were all fairly similar products.
IMO they are. Fake meat is like dog food. I also think anyone feeding their dog a Vegan diet is not capable of caring for any animal.

As usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Dogs can and do thrive on a vegan diet. I don't see any reason a human couldn't eat that same food either, though I assume it probably wouldn't taste great. I guess you think because dog food and those other products share a few ingredients that means people eating fake meat are eating dog food? Do you assume the same when dog food includes meat products? Are people eating meat and products containing meat eating dog food? Are you under some delusion that combining ingredients creates "fake" food? Is lasagna "fake"? You're the last person who should be criticizing my thought process since yours is so obviously flawed.

 

[renim]

In July 2018, the FDA announced that it had begun investigating reports of canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) in dogs eating certain pet foods, many labeled as "grain-free," which contained a high proportion of peas, lentils, other legume seeds (pulses), and/or potatoes in various forms (whole, flour, protein, etc.) as main ingredients

FDA Investigates Potential Link Between Diet & Heart Disease in Dogs

I hope the pet food is not the one with pea, and pea protein at the top, that's demonstrated to cause Parkinsons Disease in canines, and is implicated in cardio failure as well.

 

[Swampgator]

As usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Dogs can and do thrive on a vegan diet. I don't see any reason a human couldn't eat that same food either, though I assume it probably wouldn't taste great. I guess you think because dog food and those other products share a few ingredients that means people eating fake meat are eating dog food? Do you assume the same when dog food includes meat products? Are people eating meat and products containing meat eating dog food? Are you under some delusion that combining ingredients creates "fake" food? Is lasagna "fake"? You're the last person who should be criticizing my thought process since yours is so obviously flawed.

As usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Dogs can and do thrive on a vegan diet. I don't see any reason a human couldn't eat that same food either, though I assume it probably wouldn't taste great. I guess you think because dog food and those other products share a few ingredients that means people eating fake meat are eating dog food? Do you assume the same when dog food includes meat products? Are people eating meat and products containing meat eating dog food? Are you under some delusion that combining ingredients creates "fake" food? Is lasagna "fake"? You're the last person who should be criticizing my thought process since yours is so obviously flawed.

As usual you come out attacking me because I state something counter to your world view

Dogs are carnivores. Are Dogs Carnivores or Omnivores? Here's What New Research Says Lot's of folks try and call them omnivores, but their GI track, fermentation coefficient, and dentician say otherwise. Dogs are Canis Lupus, same genus AND species as the wolf. Wolves are carnivores. They can survive on non animal products when necessary, but this is a far different than thriving. And anyone attempting to keep a pet animal has an obligation to feed that animal it's best, most natural diet. Not the diet THEY eat just because......climate change.
I'm sorry a lack of nutrition has caused your brain to atrophy

 

[JRP3]

As usual you come out attacking me because I state something counter to your world view

Then you are not a thinker.

Sure, I'm the one attacking

Dogs are carnivores. Are Dogs Carnivores or Omnivores? Here's What New Research Says

Can Dogs Stay Healthy On A Vegetarian Diet?

It is true that dogs belong to the order Carnivora, but they are actually omnivores. The canine body has the ability to transform certain amino acids, the building blocks or protein, into others, meaning that dogs can get all the amino acids they need while avoiding meat.

Are Dogs Carnivores or Omnivores? | Hill's Pet

Strict or true carnivores, such as cats, have a higher nutritional requirement for taurine (an amino acid), arachidonic acid (a fatty acid), and certain vitamins (niacin, pyridoxine, vitamin A), which are readily available in animal protein and fat sources.

Omnivores, such as dogs and people, don't have higher requirements for taurine and certain vitamins and can create their own arachidonic acid from vegetable oils.

Web DVM

Dog owners jumping on board with feeding their dogs nothing but meat, essentially a pure protein diet, is fraught with potentially serious health consequences. All one has to do is understand protein metabolism to see the problem.

protein metabolism does not come without a price, as it generates a toxic waste product called ammonia. In fact, many common meat protein sources are as low as 78% utilized by the body with the rest represented as waste. Luckily, like us, canines have a liver that converts ammonia into a less harmful molecule called urea, which is then excreted by the kidneys in urine.

However, the liver and kidneys over time become overwhelmed with a diet heavily laden with protein, because these organs are constantly burdened with detoxification. Over time, if excessively taxed in this manner through diet, these organs become compromised, leading to degenerative disease, chronic renal failure in the case of the kidneys, and cirrhosis in the case of the liver.

 

[Swampgator]

JRP3,

Surely you know that a vegetarian vet may have a slightly skewed perspective? Both vet blogs you posted were authored by vegetarians. Ditto for a pet food manufacture that profits greatly from adding cheap grains to their processed food diets.

Dogs are not obligate carnivores as are cats, but they they are primarily carnivores who have the wonderful adaptation to allow them to utilize non animal foods when necessary.
Dogs lack salivary amylase for example, as do cats. Omnivores have this (we do)
Dogs also have a very short intestinal tracks, and a low fermentation coefficient. JPM, do you understand what these things mean? Or shall you find some other vegetarian blog to back up your claims?

Here is a peer reviewed article to back up mine : Dietary nutrient profiles of wild wolves: insights for optimal dog nutrition? - PubMed - NCBI

And another: The Saliva Proteome of Dogs: Variations Within and Between Breeds and Between Species. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[JRP3]

Both vet blogs you posted were authored by vegetarians.

I found nothing on the Web-DVM site suggesting the vet was a vegetarian.
Also:
What do Wolves Eat?

Wolves require more than just meat to stay healthy, though. They also eat fruits and vegetables to stock up on nutrients not found in meat. They enjoy berries like blueberries, ash berries and cowberries, as well as fruit like apples and pears.

A Gray Wolf's Diet and Hunting Habits

When food is scarce, gray wolves can eat fruit or plants. In fact, they often eat berries, melons, apples and pears to supplement their diet; gray wolves can eat black nightshade, which can be toxic to humans.

3 Studies on Vegan Diets for Dogs
Bramble the Collie's Secrets to Living to Age 25
https://www.amazon.com/Bramble-wanted-forever-Somerset-notes-ebook/dp/B00ABGW8KS

Welsh Collie Bramble lived to 25 years old and at the time of her death was the worlds oldest bitch. This book documents her care regime and vegan diet.

 

[Swampgator]

I found nothing on the Web-DVM site suggesting the vet was a vegetarian.

Gosh you have a hard time accepting facts right in front of your face. Read the second comment, from "Dr Roger" That rather unhinged reply came directly from the author, who says in the reply he is a vegetarian.

 

[Swampgator]

I found nothing on the Web-DVM site suggesting the vet was a vegetarian.
Also:

3 Studies on Vegan Diets for Dogs
Bramble the Collie's Secrets to Living to Age 25
https://www.amazon.com/Bramble-wanted-forever-Somerset-notes-ebook/dp/B00ABGW8KS

More tripe from an V dog (vegan) blog site. Again, I posted links to pubmed articles. You post vegan blog fodder. Um, OK

 

[Swampgator]

More tripe from an V dog (vegan) blog site. Again, I posted links to pubmed articles. You post vegan blog fodder. Um, OK

My gosh it was worse than I thought. I am a medical professional and all 3 of those studies are complete garbage. One is a 4 month trial of 20 dogs, commercial vs vegan. Note: commercial diet already included grains (not a natural food source for dogs). The other is based on blood tests and questionnaire responses, filled out by vegan dog owners who have their dogs on vegan diets. It asked such objective things as "is the coat shiner or duller since starting a vegan diet" Oh my, such scientific rigor. Then last one was a PETA founded study. Enough said there.

 

[JRP3]

By your logic then I can instantly dismiss any study or article you post it done by someone who eats meat, because bias, right?

 

[JRP3]

For those who pretend meat is required for athletic performance

 

[JRP3]

Gosh you have a hard time accepting facts right in front of your face. Read the second comment, from "Dr Roger" That rather unhinged reply came directly from the author, who says in the reply he is a vegetarian.

Please copy and paste a direct quote from him saying that.

 

[Boomer19]

holy cow! (or, plant based cow/pig) this thread is still kicking...

have a sandwich of choice, and enjoy the summer!