Brakes Making Noises When Changing Direction

[rentien]

Hi All,

This is hard to describe so bear with me. If I brake when reversing, and then switch to drive, the first time I brake going forward I hear a small bang sound. Same goes for if I have been driving forwards and braking, and if I stop, reverse, and the first time I brake after reversing, I hear a small bang sound again.

It is as if the brake pad when catching on to the rotor has a gap around it, so that it catches on the wheel and slides forward in the caliper until it hits the edge, same for reversing.

Does anyone else hear this? Is this normal?
This is for a 2023 (I think) Model 3 Performance. I got the car end of December last year, so I have only had it for not even 2 months.

I don't get any sounds going over bumps, or on the highway (or I can't hear them). Only the first time I brake, after braking in the opposite drive direction.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

There are many brake/suspension components that get forced clockwise/counterclockwise when you apply the brakes in each direction but none of them should be loose enough to "bang".

Loose lug nuts would be the most likely, most dangerous, and most easily checked. A loose front lower control arm is next most likely. There's also a common issue with the passenger seat sliding fore/aft and clunking. And of course, junk in your trunk/frunk/subtrunk.

Beyond that, I'd have service check it out.

 

[JKarbon]

It is exactly what you think it is... When you apply the brakes, the pads are shifting ever so slightly back and forth within the caliper, which causes the clunk you're hearing when transition between drive and reverse. I had the same issue, and ironically this started happening not to long after I had installed a set of MPP coilovers. With that I reached out to the guys at MPP for some assistance, and they confirmed what I was experiencing was in fact NOT caused by anything suspension or wheel related, but actually the brake pads. Although I did end up getting a new set of OEM front brake pads, what I did to cure the issue was actually pretty easy. I got myself a roll of genuine high temp 3M VHB tape and applied it to the back of the pads. This instantly eliminated the clunk noise and will virtually eliminate any future brake squealing, as the tape itself acts as vibration damper.

For those who are unfamiliar with this, high temp VHB tape is currently being used on OEM brake pads by the likes of BMW, Volvo, Porsche, Audi, VW and many others. I've attached an image of a set of stock BMW pads for reference on what it looks like, and how you would go about using it.

Here's some more info on the 3M VHB tape...

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1650712O/brake-shim-documentation.pdf

You can purchase the tape off of Amazon and other online sources in various sizes and lengths. They also come in a handful of thicknesses, which you can reference from the aforementioned linked 3M PDF.

Oh and last but not least, after reaching out to Brembo as well (in regard to the brakes on the Performance vehicles), the potential underlining cause for why this happens in the first place, (and this took some time to get them to admit to this) could be due to irregularities in the manufacturing tolerances of the brake pads.

Hope this info helps...

 

[chobra]

There are many brake/suspension components that get forced clockwise/counterclockwise when you apply the brakes in each direction but none of them should be loose enough to "bang".

Loose lug nuts would be the most likely, most dangerous, and most easily checked. A loose front lower control arm is next most likely. There's also a common issue with the passenger seat sliding fore/aft and clunking. And of course, junk in your trunk/frunk/subtrunk.

Beyond that, I'd have service check it out.

+1 vote to check wheel lug nuts are torqued to spec

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

@JKarbon That 3M tape is used between the pad and it's backing shim to add an additional layer of high frequency damping to reduce squeal. It does nothing to reduce movement and is not intended to secure the pad directly to the caliper piston.

 

[JKarbon]

@JKarbon That 3M tape is used between the pad and it's backing shim to add an additional layer of high frequency damping to reduce squeal. It does nothing to reduce movement and is not intended to secure the pad directly to the caliper piston.

Exactly, but if you've ever worked with or changed pads with VHB tape, you'll notice the pads are almost always adhered to the pistons (via the tape), and in order to remove them, you have to pry them off the pistons. Depending on the number and size of the pistons (ultimately the bonding surface area), it sometimes takes quite a bit of force to do so. Although these tapes are often advertised as having a "permanent bond", in this application it is definitely not permanent, but it is very strong! Case in point, on some of the newer BMW's with large sport calipers, you really need to work them off the pistons! Taking this into account, using VHB in this scenario, does in fact helps eliminate that slight pad shifting which is the cause of the aforementioned noise.

So, yes VHB is not intended to solve this particular issue, but it inherently works to remedy it. If you have shifting (clunking) pads, you can 1- toss your pads and try new ones, 2- live with the clunk, or 3- try some VHB tape...

 

[JKarbon]

@JKarbon That 3M tape is used between the pad and it's backing shim to add an additional layer of high frequency damping to reduce squeal. It does nothing to reduce movement and is not intended to secure the pad directly to the caliper piston.

And as referenced in the stock BMW image, the tape is not between the pad and the backing shim, but rather on top of the shim itself, which makes direct contact with the piston(s)...

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Interesting. No, I've never seen pads taped to the calipers like that, but I suppose it makes sense as a cheap/effective anti-squeal solution with the additional benefit of forced pad retraction for improved efficiency. I can imagine what a mess it would be to get all that goo and bugs out of the calipers during a pad change though!

 

[JKarbon]

Interesting. No, I've never seen pads taped to the calipers like that, but I suppose it makes sense as a cheap/effective anti-squeal solution with the additional benefit of forced pad retraction for improved efficiency. I can imagine what a mess it would be to get all that goo and bugs out of the calipers during a pad change though!

Believe it or not, the tape holds up quite well, and I've never seen the stuff become "goo". I guess there's always the possibility that it could become messy (under extreme track like conditions), but I've personally never experienced or seen that on anything on the street. Aside from the effort it takes to pull the pads off the pistons, the little if any residual adhesive that may be left behind, can easily be cleaned up with some brake cleaner or rubbing alcohol. Nothing more than what you would use to clean your calipers after a conventional non-VHB baked pad change.

I know this all sounds crazy, and a little unorthodox (I too was a little apprehensive and taken back the first time I saw a pad backed with essentially double-sided tape), but the stuff actually works to help eliminate brake sequel and subsequently, noise associated with pads shifting.

 

[rentien]

Believe it or not, the tape holds up quite well, and I've never seen the stuff become "goo". I guess there's always the possibility that it could become messy (under extreme track like conditions), but I've personally never experienced or seen that on anything on the street. Aside from the effort it takes to pull the pads off the pistons, the little if any residual adhesive that may be left behind, can easily be cleaned up with some brake cleaner or rubbing alcohol. Nothing more than what you would use to clean your calipers after a conventional non-VHB baked pad change.

I know this all sounds crazy, and a little unorthodox (I too was a little apprehensive and taken back the first time I saw a pad backed with essentially double-sided tape), but the stuff actually works to help eliminate brake sequel and subsequently, noise associated with pads shifting.

Do you mind telling us exactly which VHB you are using?

Is it the 5952?

I was thinking, what could I be doing differently from a normal car. I have barely used the brakes since getting the car, because of regenerative braking. So I went out and took some close to limit braking runs.

For now the clunking sound has gone away.

This doesn't totally make sense to me, but I just tried it since I assume the design is the same as typical cars, so it could be the difference of rarely using the brakes which could cause the brakes to act differently.

I'll see if it comes back... but I specifically reversed, braked, went forward, braked, etc. No sound for now.

 

[JKarbon]

Do you mind telling us exactly which VHB you are using?

Is it the 5952?

I was thinking, what could I be doing differently from a normal car. I have barely used the brakes since getting the car, because of regenerative braking. So I went out and took some close to limit braking runs.

For now the clunking sound has gone away.

This doesn't totally make sense to me, but I just tried it since I assume the design is the same as typical cars, so it could be the difference of rarely using the brakes which could cause the brakes to act differently.

I'll see if it comes back... but I specifically reversed, braked, went forward, braked, etc. No sound for now.

Are you noticing it more so in one particular weather or temperature condition? I went with the F9460PC variant.

 

[rentien]

Are you noticing it more so in one particular weather or temperature condition? I went with the F9460PC variant.

Not specifically. I had the issue before the recent weather in the Bay Area, when it was daytime and cool sunny, and night time.

It also happens lately with the rains but again it happened before the rains.

Thanks for telling me which vhb!

 

[Diomidis Papas]

Hello, I live in London, UK and I have the exact same issue in my MY23 Performance.
It started happening suddenly during October. I had the car parked for around a month as I was away on holidays.

I hear a small bang sound when I switch from Drive to Reverse and hit the break. I cannot hear the sound when I am driving and break, only when switching gear.

I requested a service at Tesla service centre where they confirmed the issue.
Found that the front and rear pads were not seated correctly, so they replaced them as they were moving in the caliber when moving drive to reverse.

But the banging sound is still there!.
So they will call me in when they have get more info from engineering department.

Has anyone found the root cause of the issue ?

 

[wookie]

Had a mobile tech come out to look at the same on my MYP. She booked it in to the workshop for reseating / lubricating and I've just had this message on my app.

 

[thomasJr]

Hello, I live in London, UK and I have the exact same issue in my MY23 Performance.
It started happening suddenly during October. I had the car parked for around a month as I was away on holidays.

I hear a small bang sound when I switch from Drive to Reverse and hit the break. I cannot hear the sound when I am driving and break, only when switching gear.

I requested a service at Tesla service centre where they confirmed the issue.
Found that the front and rear pads were not seated correctly, so they replaced them as they were moving in the caliber when moving drive to reverse.

But the banging sound is still there!.
So they will call me in when they have get more info from engineering department.

Has anyone found the root cause of the issue ?

hi did they find anything?

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Funny I was commenting in this thread last year and now my car developed a similar issue:

With each *cycle* of hard acceleration and hard braking there was a metallic clunk from the back seat area that sounded like a loose socket wrench or something sliding around in some frame cavity. It was fairly subtle and mildly annoying but was incredibly loud and frightening once I removed the seat bench to investigate.

Tesla refused to diagnose it (they said it’d be too difficult) so I had to figure it out myself. Turned out to be torn rear subframe bushings which they replaced under warranty once I told them how.

 

[thomasJr]

Funny I was commenting in this thread last year and now my car developed a similar issue:

With each *cycle* of hard acceleration and hard braking there was a metallic clunk from the back seat area that sounded like a loose socket wrench or something sliding around in some frame cavity. It was fairly subtle and mildly annoying but was incredibly loud and frightening once I removed the seat bench to investigate.

Tesla refused to diagnose it (they said it’d be too difficult) so I had to figure it out myself. Turned out to be torn rear subframe bushings which they replaced under warranty once I told them how.

sounds like they are bunch of idiots that they can not figure out such issue themselves.