The concern, at least from me, had little to do with the process of swapping. It was/is all about the physical effect on the battery component itself.
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Battery Swapping Event - Live Updates
- Thread starter TD1
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mitch672
Active Member
Did you watch the YouTube video? Seems to be 2 rails on a platform, there are multiple screwdriver heads next to them, the pack is supported by the platform while the fasteners are loosened, then the pack drops down on the platform and a new pack is rolled it, then the process is reversed. Watch the video, I think you'll see it pretty well.
I did see the video. Yes, they did a good job with the process. That doesn't say anything about the wear and tear effect on the battery pack or the chassis.
Look at the early wear and tear on the key fobs.
Physical objects undergoing mechanical activity -- especially involving friction -- experience wear and tear.
Is it going to be a significant issue? Don't know. Do I suspect it will be? For typical usage, no. For heavy usage, maybe. For me, probably not since I probably won't use the feature.
Look at the early wear and tear on the key fobs.
Physical objects undergoing mechanical activity -- especially involving friction -- experience wear and tear.
Is it going to be a significant issue? Don't know. Do I suspect it will be? For typical usage, no. For heavy usage, maybe. For me, probably not since I probably won't use the feature.
deonb
Active Member
Yeah, I'm a little bit worried about fastening a bolt into the chassis that regularly. What if you want to swap daily because you have the commute from hell?
You similarly can't rotate your tires on a daily basis.
I assume (hope) the bolt thread is softer than the chassis thread, but still, if you have a stripped bolt, what will the swapper do? Give an error saying it can't reach torque spec on the bolt and now you have to call a flatbed?
Tesla currently earns $8,000-$10,000 for each credit. I think Tesla earns an additional 3 credits from each Model S sold in the United States by offering battery swapping. At the current rate Tesla could earn $24,000 to $30,000 in profit from offering battery swapping. The penalty for not earning enough credits is $5,000 per credit. I don't think the rate for the credits will fall below that.
The worst wear and tear should be on the screws. If needed, they'll probably replace them when you take your car in for servicing. Maybe they also have a service schedule for battery packs that have been frequently swapped. So that every ten times it's been swapped, they inspect the helicoils in the screw holes, and replace any that are worn. (Or are the threaded screw holes also on the car? That would make servicing easier.)
antochat
Pearl White P85
deonb
Active Member
Yes, but you have to sell these credits to someone. It's not just a matter of the state of California giving you money because you created them.
But even this years AFAIK the credit revenue is expected to dry up around Q4 since there isn't anybody left at that point that will need to buy them. It will reset to 0 next year, but presumably we'll be in the same boat again around Q3 or Q4 when demand dries up. How does creating more credits help the demand issue?
I'm still eagerly awaiting brianoflondon's response regarding the Better Place swapping failure rate.
Let me try to find the link...
Update
Here:
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are the projections concerning credits drying up up to date with the recent uptick in new car sales? I haven't seen/ looked for the raw calculations. it seems that car sales are way ahead of expectations which may lead to demand for more credits.
New car sales surge statewide | UTSanDiego.com
New car sales surge statewide | UTSanDiego.com
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Interesting discussion on Tesla's battery swap announcement on Hacker News:
Tesla announces 90 sec battery swap | Hacker News
Tesla announces 90 sec battery swap | Hacker News
Kraken
Member
First... where the hell is the official video, it's been way more than an hour.
Second, I was against battery swaps, but I can see this working.
Hate to say it, your battery WILL be used for grid storage, but that really won't put that much more wear on it most likely. They'd have to have a lot of extra bays for extra batteries. They will probably have a way of bringing out more batteries if the 50 that are there for rentals get used. What happens when you get to a second swap location? Do you just swap a tesla battery for a tesla battery and keep going (for the same fee)? They must have some way of acknowledging you are turning in a swapped battery so that they aren't waiting for you to return to that location to return a battery if you are doing a round robin trip.
60s will have a chance to do the swap to an 85, but they won't be able to supercharge unless they already have it or pay for it. This will probably be more likely to use the swappers more frequently if doing a road trip (or else they are just limited to slightly longer legs after doing one swap). They still don't have the "free" option unless they pay for it.
Comparable to a price of gas = definitely usable. Especially for those who bought the car because it's nice/green/fast/sleek and not because electricity is less expensive. I'm sure tesla has done the math to figure out if rolling this out is going to bankrupt them.
A few more details to work out, but it is way better than what I feared, and it doesn't defeat the supercharger, it enhances it because now if they can get enough solar, they won't be purchasing energy from the grid during the day.
I liked the question about "how will figure out how to charge people, will they use an attendant?"... this guy did create paypal, I'm sure he can think of a solution that will work with a web-enhanced vehicle.
Second, I was against battery swaps, but I can see this working.
Hate to say it, your battery WILL be used for grid storage, but that really won't put that much more wear on it most likely. They'd have to have a lot of extra bays for extra batteries. They will probably have a way of bringing out more batteries if the 50 that are there for rentals get used. What happens when you get to a second swap location? Do you just swap a tesla battery for a tesla battery and keep going (for the same fee)? They must have some way of acknowledging you are turning in a swapped battery so that they aren't waiting for you to return to that location to return a battery if you are doing a round robin trip.
60s will have a chance to do the swap to an 85, but they won't be able to supercharge unless they already have it or pay for it. This will probably be more likely to use the swappers more frequently if doing a road trip (or else they are just limited to slightly longer legs after doing one swap). They still don't have the "free" option unless they pay for it.
Comparable to a price of gas = definitely usable. Especially for those who bought the car because it's nice/green/fast/sleek and not because electricity is less expensive. I'm sure tesla has done the math to figure out if rolling this out is going to bankrupt them.
A few more details to work out, but it is way better than what I feared, and it doesn't defeat the supercharger, it enhances it because now if they can get enough solar, they won't be purchasing energy from the grid during the day.
I liked the question about "how will figure out how to charge people, will they use an attendant?"... this guy did create paypal, I'm sure he can think of a solution that will work with a web-enhanced vehicle.
I have serious doubts demand will dry up completely, but expect it would decline significantly. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see the state and federal mandates for all kinds of emissions become stricter, leading to sustained demand through 2014. Rumor has it Obama plans to get the ball rolling on a carbon tax in the coming weeks.
White House Preps Carbon Tax - Let's Call It 'ObamaAir' - Forbes
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Not the full event but here is my video which includes a good chunk of Elon's presentation and the swap demo. Took forever for YouTube to upload and process for some reason otherwise I would have had it up sooner.
Elon Musk Demonstrates Battery Swapping - YouTube
Elon Musk Demonstrates Battery Swapping - YouTube
deonb
Active Member
Obama can announce a cure for cancer and it'll get filibustered...
I'm not quite sure how he can pass a new tax by executive order (otherwise the Norquist overlord would have been rendered mute by now). But it will be sweet if he manages to pull it off.
deonb
Active Member
It's happening...
http://www.teslamotors.com/batteryswap
(Good thing the mods decided on only having one post-announcement thread... oh, wait.)
http://www.teslamotors.com/batteryswap
(Good thing the mods decided on only having one post-announcement thread... oh, wait.)
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Norbert
TSLA will win
Thanks for linking to my piece Dave. I have a follow up slated for Friday morning comparing the Tesla offering to Better Place's battery swapping.
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