Battery Swapping Event - Live Updates

[mitch672]

I was joking, but that is how the program has been explained so far. We just don't know the amount of time you can keep the pack before being charged

Remember, the Model S has GPS, so one possible way to determine your "road trip" has been completed would be you are back at home (oh yeah, they know where you live, from where your car spends most if it's time via GPS info and where they sold it to you) and you are hundreds of miles from the swapper... They could send you an email asking if you want your pack back, or are planning on keeping the swapped in pack.. I doubt it's a fixed time period like 30 days though, they only have so many pack storage slots, so the need to keep it moving, as they say

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

I assume there is some time period after which they decide well, you've now swapped long enough that it's permanent.

I like the fact that they'll ship your battery back to you. I hope they'll ship it to a service center as well and not just to another SuperCharger station.

If there is a SuperSwapper close enough that might be more convenient than a service station. I'm interested in what they say about that program though.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Could Tesla allow current owners to upgrade to new battery technology that will be available in the future?

I would think so. (I have the mental image of the economists at Tesla rubbing their hands and mumbling about after-market sales.)

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

So are they going to just hold everyone's batteries for them? It seems like pretty quickly those 50 slots would fill up with everyone's "original batteries" that they haven't come back for yet.

There can be many more than 50 "slots". They are just going to have 50 batteries to start with, but clearly there will be a lot of room to expand and empty slots. 50 batteries could be stored in 2 small backyard sheds, so we aren't talking about much space here.

 

[PopSmith]

PopSmith...it's just wishful thinking and a tired Tesla tweeter that's not paying attention

I chalked it up to user error but thought I'd mention it, just in case. :smile:

 

[deonb]

Remember, the Model S has GPS

Ahh, right! That's how they can use your battery for the grid.

When they know you're further away from the SuperCharger than the time it takes to charge the battery, they can use it for grid storage. When you're approaching closer to the SuperCharger, they can start filling it back up to have it ready for you.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Remember, the Model S has GPS, so one possible way to determine your "road trip" has been completed would be you are back at home (oh yeah, they know where you live, from where your car spends most if it's time via GPS info and where they sold it to you) and you are hundreds of miles from the swapper... They could send you an email asking if you want your pack back, or are planning on keeping the swapped in pack.. I doubt it's a fixed time period like 30 days though, they only have so many pack storage slots, so the need to keep it moving, as they say

I'm pretty sure Tesla won't use your GPS info without your express permission.

Probably how they will do it is something like:

- Keep the battery a week at no additional cost
- Each subsequent day costs $5, until you pay for the swapped battery or pick up your old battery.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

So, it is official: no magic tricks on this, no white rabbits pulled out of the hat. Confirmed many/all problems we were discussing before.
It is/will be rather costly and there is no certainty on materializing on large scale (== useless in general) and no certainty on future feasibility.





They are spending some R&D to address common fear, just to ease this FUD about time-consuming charging.
And there is no certainty on this swapping to (directly) pay for itself. It is and will be mostly payed for by every Tesla costumer buying their car.

Marketing gimmick. A great one but still costly and only a gimmick.

Can I haz one in europe? Japan? We are also paying for this...

I don't see it that way. They are charging a fair price, and I show them breaking even when charging much lower fees. Charging the prevailing rate for gasoline was pretty much my best case for revenue. In California especially they have an opportunity to make gobs of revenue.

The major cost of the stations is the batteries, and Tesla needs that capacity regardless of whether they do swapping. Swapping at least gives them an additional opportunity to monetize that investment.

 

[deonb]

I'm pretty sure Tesla won't use your GPS info without your express permission.

Probably how they will do it is something like:

- Keep the battery a week at no additional cost
- Each subsequent day costs $5, until you pay for the swapped battery or pick up your old battery.

Which you give to them when you pick up the car. You don't have to, but I don't know of anybody who has turned it down.

Americans however are a bit more trusting towards companies, and less trusting towards government. I don't know how this will hold up in Europe, where it's the other way around.

 

[mitch672]

I'm pretty sure Tesla won't use your GPS info without your express permission.

Probably how they will do it is something like:

- Keep the battery a week at no additional cost
- Each subsequent day costs $5, until you pay for the swapped battery or pick up your old battery.

They can make usage of the swapper contingent on using your GPS info, as has just been pointed out, they can (and likely will) determine when to top it off, if they see your Model S heading back towards the swapper. As well, if you drive by it and/or use the colocated SuperCharger, that could be construed as your intentions to keep the swapped pack, likely via a confirming email.
It's clear they'll need to know where you are to make the swappers efficient and workable.

 

[NotTarts]

I'm guessing the cost of the initial supply of 50 batteries isn't part of the $500k build cost?

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

They can make usage of the swapper contingent on using your GPS info, as has just been pointed out, they can (and likely will) determine when to top it off, if they see your Model S heading back towards the swapper. As well, if you drive by it and/or use the colocated SuperCharger, that could be construed as your intentions to keep the swapped pack, likely via a confirming email.
It's clear they'll need to know where you are to make the swappers efficient and workable.

I think the best way is just to just put a button on the screen called "pick up battery", and have it display the directions back to swap location, while notifying Tesla that you are on your way to pick it up.

 

[brianman]

My close up of swap

Thanks, dadaleus. Do we need to start a thread for videos of people taking videos of Tesla vehicles?

 

[Yggdrasill]

They can make usage of the swapper contingent on using your GPS info, as has just been pointed out, they can (and likely will) determine when to top it off, if they see your Model S heading back towards the swapper. As well, if you drive by it and/or use the colocated SuperCharger, that could be construed as your intentions to keep the swapped pack, likely via a confirming email.
It's clear they'll need to know where you are to make the swappers efficient and workable.

How about they instead have an app where you can:

- See the current location of your battery
- See current SOC
- See current temperature
- Set charging
- Buy the current battery pack
- Request delivery

If this is an app available from your Model S touchscreen, you merely set the charging to range charge 30 minutes before you approach the battery swapper.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

I'm guessing the cost of the initial supply of 50 batteries isn't part of the $500k build cost?

No. Though in the case of California, the evidence so far points to the batteries being essentially paid for by the electric utilities. And I think that many of the ZEV Mandate states are following California's lead on storage as well, which would extend those incentives to states covering 50% of the U.S. car market.

And in other states, the cost is at a minimum substantially mitigated. For instance, North Carolina has a 30% tax credit for storage (batteries) and the Feds have a $30,000 credit for the station itself. That is aside from the revenue that Tesla can make with CES contracts.

 

[mitch672]

I think the best way is just to just put a button on the screen called "pick up battery", and have it display the directions back to swap location, while notifying Tesla that you are on your way to pick it up.

Lol. Yes, that works very well too
But if you head in the direction of the swapper, they could automate it, they like to make it so you don't need to plan or do anything special, GPS can get them that ability, with perhaps a pop up question on the screen "We notice your heading towards the swapper, should we top off your pack, or are you keeping the swapped in pack?" Clear, concise and elegant.

Edit: they could also tell you the estimated cost to keep the swapped pack as well via the pop up.
Smartphone app works too, but not every owner has one/uses it. Everyone has a 17" touchscreen.

 

[drinkerofkoolaid]

The battery swap option will allow Tesla to make an extra $10,000 to $20,000 in profit from each Model S sold in the United States, depending on the going rate for Zero Emissions credits. If 10,000 Model S are sold in the United States, that's $100,000,000 to $200,000,000 in extra profit. The swap option pays for itself, and offers a number of benefits to Model S owners.

 

[brianman]

The other question was people thinking your chassis would somehow be tweaked if the battery was removed.

How was this addressed? I missed it.

The battery was much touted as a structural component. For frequent swappers, the battery becomes one of the "most moved" parts in the Model S.

 

[mitch672]

How was this addressed? I missed it.

The battery was much touted as a structural component. For frequent swappers, the battery becomes one of the "most moved" parts in the Model S.

They use the 4 lifting points to raise the car and take pressure off the wheels, the car is immobilized, and locked into the swappers frame during the swap.

 

[deonb]

The battery swap option will allow Tesla to make an extra $10,000 to $20,000 in profit from each Model S sold in the United States, depending on the going rate for Zero Emissions credits. If 10,000 Model S are sold in the United States, that's $100,000,000 to $200,000,000 in extra profit. The swap option pays for itself, and offers a number of benefits to Model S owners.

Only if they can manage to get buyers for those credits. Are there actually that many buyers available? I though Tesla is already creating more credits than it can sell?