Battery efficacy

[Ritu_o0o]

I have got my CPO MS 60 (with AP1) a few days ago, I was expecting it to be the very battery efficient vehicle but it turned out to be other way around. Perhaps, this could be because of some improper settings. Here are more details:


My daily work commute is around 50 miles one way (around 100 miles round trip) which include bumper to bumper LA traffic on 210 FWY, before MS, I had Bolt EV for my daily commute, Bolt EV is rated for 210 miles range and it gives around 230 actual miles. For my daily commute, Bolt EV consumes around 55-60 miles worth of battery (I will have 160 – 170 miles left at the end of the day). Also, I could see its regeneration on bumper to bumper traffic situation (it used to increase the remaining miles).


My MS takes around 35-40% battery one way (around 75-80%). It shows 185 rated miles at 90% of charge.


Am I missing any setting? I have “Range Mode” on, “Cabin overheat protection and Precondition” settings are turned off, I have “Always Connected” setting on. Is there any issue with my MS regarding regeneration mechanism?

 

[nwdiver]

I have got my CPO MS 60 (with AP1) a few days ago, I was expecting it to be the very battery efficient vehicle but it turned out to be other way around. Perhaps, this could be because of some improper settings. Here are more details:


My daily work commute is around 50 miles one way (around 100 miles round trip) which include bumper to bumper LA traffic on 210 FWY, before MS, I had Bolt EV for my daily commute, Bolt EV is rated for 210 miles range and it gives around 230 actual miles. For my daily commute, Bolt EV consumes around 55-60 miles worth of battery (I will have 160 – 170 miles left at the end of the day). Also, I could see its regeneration on bumper to bumper traffic situation (it used to increase the remaining miles).


My MS takes around 35-40% battery one way (around 75-80%). It shows 185 rated miles at 90% of charge.


Am I missing any setting? I have “Range Mode” on, “Cabin overheat protection and Precondition” settings are turned off, I have “Always Connected” setting on. Is there any issue with my MS regarding regeneration mechanism?

What's your kWh consumption?... the MS will use more wh/mi than the Bolt since it's a much larger vehicle. There's going to be some degradation with the battery too... depending on age and mileage the usable capacity of your 60 is probably <50kWh.

 

[Ritu_o0o]

What's your kWh consumption?... the MS will use more wh/mi than the Bolt since it's a much larger vehicle. There's going to be some degradation with the battery too... depending on age and mileage the usable capacity of your 60 is probably <50kWh.

It is Jan 2015 with 27K miles on it. do you think it will have so much of degradation? also, it does show me around 185 miles range and i do not see any regeneration effect on rated miles, is it normal?

 

[nwdiver]

It is Jan 2015 with 27K miles on it. do you think it will have so much of degradation? also, it does show me around 185 miles range and i do not see any regeneration effect on rated miles, is it normal?

My 2012 P85 has ~230 rated miles at 100% SOC... so 185 at 100% SOC for a 60 sounds about right...

If the previous owner lived in a hot climate and kept the car at 100% SOC (terrible idea but I know people that have done that) then that would have accelerated the degradation...

 

[jsmay311]

I had Bolt EV for my daily commute, Bolt EV is rated for 210 miles range and it gives around 230 actual miles. For my daily commute, Bolt EV consumes around 55-60 miles worth of battery (I will have 160 – 170 miles left at the end of the day). Also, I could see its regeneration on bumper to bumper traffic situation (it used to increase the remaining miles).

Where's that 210 mile Bolt range number coming from? (Rated range is 238 miles)

Were you fully charging the Bolt, or using the Hilltop Reserve setting?

What are your regen settings on the MS?

 

[Ritu_o0o]

Where's that 210 mile Bolt range number coming from? (Rated range is 238 miles)

Were you fully charging the Bolt, or using the Hilltop Reserve setting?

What are your regen settings on the MS?

my dealer said it is 210, took it at face value, I keep Hilltop Reserve On, my Regen setting is "Standard" in my MS.

 

[jsmay311]

Anecdotal evidence that I've seen on various forums shows GM EV owners able to exceed the EPA efficiency/range ratings with relative ease, whereas the opposite seems to be true with Tesla owners. But lots of factors can play into that perceived reality, including different driving behavior between Tesla and GM owners. Nevertheless, this has always bugged me and I've never completely understood it. So that could be playing into what you're observing.

On the other hand, your observations seem quite extreme. You're saying you use 75-80% of your MS60's battery (or 154-164 rated miles (based on your 185 miles @ 90%)) driving only 100 miles, while your Bolt only used 55-60 miles of displayed range for the same trip? That's remarkable / hard to believe.

Can you share more details?

What wh/mile trip efficiency numbers in the Model S reporting? Are you driving it more aggressively than the Bolt? How much of your trip is bumper-to-bumper? Is the rest highway speed? If so, how fast do you drive? What's your tire pressure? What are your climate settings? What has the weather been like recently?

 

[mblakele]

In southern California I wouldn't use Range Mode. I think it should be called "Cold Weather Range Mode". In warm climates I wouldn't expect it to have much effect on range, but it might possibly hurt the battery over time.

It'd be interesting to see your Wh/mi numbers. But as already mentioned the Model S is a heavier vehicle than the Bolt. That will affect range, because F=ma. I think it's also fair to say that a permanent magnet motor like that of the Bolt and Model 3 tends to be more efficient than induction motor found in the Model S and X, especially at very low speeds. The Model S and X only regen down to about 5 mph and if you're spending a lot of time under that speed, efficiency will suffer. Peak efficiency should be around 20-mph according to Model S Efficiency and Range. The Model S is tuned more for performance than efficiency, because Tesla likes to make fast cars. Finally driving style matters too.

You might find these threads interesting:

• Model S: Lifetime Average Wh/mi
• Model 3: Lifetime Wh/mi

 

[Tjhappel]

I’ve had both, currently have a bolt and an X, the bolt like the volt is very easy to get over the rates range on. Any tesla i find difficult to get rated let alone over rated range.

In the bolt when you turn your heater or ac off you’ll immediately see your range go up, Tesla won’t do that... You should be able to get rated range in your s easy enough, not in the X!! You’ll get used to the differences between the two cars,

 

[ℬête Noire]

my dealer said it is 210, took it at face value, I keep Hilltop Reserve On, my Regen setting is "Standard" in my MS.

Perhaps your salesperson was doing you a solid by setting expectations appropriately? A range of 210mi is the more realistic number, depending on what speeds you'll be driving at and temperature conditions (and if you like using a lot of temperature control in the vehicle). This is doubly true if you are using Hilltop Reserve, which alone will knock it down to about 214mi (238mi * 0.9).

 

[Buster1]

I commute about 45 mi each way every day too. I’ve been tracking my numbers manually trying to develop some basic figures and assumptions.

Depending on temps and winds, I generally see 280 - 320 Wh/mi and 12 to 15 kWh used each way.

You should be close to these numbers unless a brake is dragging, or you floor it a lot, or crank the heat, or tire pressures are low.

 

[Ritu_o0o]

I commute about 45 mi each way every day too. I’ve been tracking my numbers manually trying to develop some basic figures and assumptions.

Depending on temps and winds, I generally see 280 - 320 Wh/mi and 12 to 15 kWh used each way.

You should be close to these numbers unless a brake is dragging, or you floor it a lot, or crank the heat, or tire pressures are low.

I’m not sure about the brake but I’m not heavy on accelerator. Here is my usage:

 

[Ritu_o0o]

After that 125 miles I was at 13% battery life. Is it really normal?

 

[Ritu_o0o]

Here is my last 30 miles consumption:

 

[ℬête Noire]

Anecdotal evidence that I've seen on various forums shows GM EV owners able to exceed the EPA efficiency/range ratings with relative ease...

Bolt's drag Cd is fairly high (>.30) and it's got a lot of cross-section because it stands tall relative to it's size. This makes it's range really sensitive to speed, with the flip-side being if your are traveling fairly slow it does a lot better. It also has very aggressive regen. It's pretty easy to NEVER touch the foot brake pedal, outside of unfortunate traffic lights timing on faster roads where it's possible that the steering wheel regen paddle isn't enough.

So slow traffic is it's groove, it'll tend towards over-performing on that sort of mix.

EDIT: Also, have less than 5000 mi on the Bolt so far but over the last 3000 mi it's averaging 3.6mi/kW (how the Bolt reports it natively, equivalent to 275-280W/mi). A lot of highway miles in there but rarely much over 60mi, purposely because of the range hit mentioned above.

 

[Ritu_o0o]

Here is a missing image

 

[jsmay311]

Here is a missing image

So you averaged 344 Wh/mi over this period. That's higher than the rated efficiency, but not dramatically so.

If you kept up that average over 100 miles, it wouldn't put you anywhere near 75-80% of a MS60's battery.

 

[Troy]

310 Wh/mi in message #12 is pretty normal. Check out the survey average here in row 82. It shows 317 Wh/mi for the S60. Your battery capacity looks excellent based on 185 rated miles at 90%. Feel free to add your data to the survey. You can then select your username on the Charts tab to see how it compares to other Teslas.

By the way, don't leave range mode on unless you are on a long distance trip and really need the extra range. It has a negative effect on battery thermal management (liquid cooling/heating).

 

[Buster1]

I’m not sure about the brake but I’m not heavy on accelerator. Here is my usage:

That looks pretty normal.

 

[jsmay311]

After that 125 miles I was at 13% battery life. Is it really normal?

Your photos show 39 kWh used. If you started at 90% and ended up at 13%, that's 77% used. 39/0.77 = 50.6 kWh

Idk what capacity a 2015 S60 battery with only 27k miles should normally show, but 50.6 kWh seems low.