Article states M3 maintenance costs highest

[voip-ninja]

We live in Seattle and drive 5k-6k miles per year, mostly city miles. Don't imagine that changing anytime soon. I am a sucker and buy the recommended premium gas for our Acura (like $3.15 - $3.30 per gallon). We started out leasing our car for under $200 a month after our fully paid for Civic was totaled in an accident, and ended up buying it via financing after the lease as a placeholder car while we waited for the Model 3.

However, I'm now starting to realize that it's going to be sorta shocking to go from paying $300 a month payments + gas and maybe $200 a year in maintenance for a dependable Japanese ICE to around $500 per month and possibly $500 a year in maintenance for an "affordable" and unproven (reliability) Tesla...

Also still have to find an electrician willing to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet 2 feet away from our garage panel for under $1000.

The Acura needs the higher octane fuel and will get lower mileage if you put low octane gas in it. You will also get some knocking with lower octane gas and the computer will have to retard the timing.

Cars with high compression engines that are designed for premium fuel actually do need premium fuel and putting low octane fuel in them just robs you of performance.

 

[206er]

The Acura needs the higher octane fuel and will get lower mileage if you put low octane gas in it. You will also get some knocking with lower octane gas and the computer will have to retard the timing.

Cars with high compression engines that are designed for premium fuel actually do need premium fuel and putting low octane fuel in them just robs you of performance.

I'd never researched the issue and assumed it was hype - thanks for the info!

 

[TimM.]

I've got to ask (not being a Tesla owner.. yet).. what maintenance are people talking about? Test driving the S in May, the sales rep says people typically go every other year because nothing's really needed except windshield wipers... brakes last 100K+ miles, etc.. not having to do oil swaps, tranny oil, air filter, timing belt, water pump, the list goes on... the M3 seems like it'll be far less maintenance.

Note: I don't have dealers do anything for me, unless it's under warranty.. and don't pay for service plans either.

 

[voip-ninja]

I've got to ask (not being a Tesla owner.. yet).. what maintenance are people talking about? Test driving the S in May, the sales rep says people typically go every other year because nothing's really needed except windshield wipers... brakes last 100K+ miles, etc.. not having to do oil swaps, tranny oil, air filter, timing belt, water pump, the list goes on... the M3 seems like it'll be far less maintenance.

Note: I don't have dealers do anything for me, unless it's under warranty.. and don't pay for service plans either.

It's Tesla recommended maintenance. It includes things like changing the coolant for the battery, swapping the brake fluid (which needs to be done every 2-3 years whether it "needs" it or not).

This ranges from about $500 a year to $800 a year on the Model S depending on which year of the car lifespan it is. On a Model S, if you owned it for 8 years and did the recommended annual maintenance with Tesla each year then it would cost you about $6,000 over the 8 years of ownership and that doesn't include tires, wipers or anything that failed out of warranty and needed to be fixed.

You don't "have to" do it.... but some of this stuff like swapping the battery coolant needs to be done to avoid wrecking the $15,000 battery pack and only Tesla are set up to do it properly.

Your approach is one I hope Tesla have taken into account. I've run into many Americans who have owned their cars for years and "done nothing" with them other than an oil change every year or two when they think about it.

 

[chronopc]

Your approach is one I hope Tesla have taken into account. I've run into many Americans who have owned their cars for years and "done nothing" with them other than an oil change every year or two when they think about it.

I'm one of those. I hope as more people have Teslas there will be alternative places to get maintenance services and pick and choose what you get done instead of doing all the things that Tesla recommends. For me I will do all the maintenance that's battery or drive train related. The others services I'm not as concerned about.

 

[Reciprocity]

I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions, but the quoted data makes the point :
Tesla Model 3 Maintenance Costs May Be Higher Than ICE Cars | Torque News

Now, while I don't have to follow Tesla's recommended maintenance schedule, why do they set themselves up for an article like this?

Ill just leave this right here for you:

A Tesla Model S hits 300,000 miles in just 2 years – saving an estimated $60,000 on fuel and maintenance

 

[voip-ninja]

I'm one of those. I hope as more people have Teslas there will be alternative places to get maintenance services and pick and choose what you get done instead of doing all the things that Tesla recommends. For me I will do all the maintenance that's battery or drive train related. The others services I'm not as concerned about.

Well, there's a flip side to that kind of ownership. I've seen many high mileage cars that were never serviced properly other than the occasional oil change.

Typically when something finally does go wrong with a poorly maintained car it is catastrophic and spectacularly expensive to fix. Blown heads, grenaded engines, wrecked transmissions, etc., all come to mind.

If you are that type of owner then the Model 3 is going to be a "sticker shock" for you because some of the maintenance absolutely does have to be done or you are going to really affect the long term viability of the car's battery.

 

[voip-ninja]

Ill just leave this right here for you:

A Tesla Model S hits 300,000 miles in just 2 years – saving an estimated $60,000 on fuel and maintenance

I'm sure it saved a ton in fuel since they almost exclusively used the free super charge network but people disputing the cost of servicing EVs might be interested in this nugget;

In order to get the vehicle to 300,000 miles, Tesloop says that it spent a total combined maintenance and fuel costs of $10,492 over two years with a total of 12 days in the shop.

 

[chronopc]

Well, there's a flip side to that kind of ownership. I've seen many high mileage cars that were never serviced properly other than the occasional oil change.

Typically when something finally does go wrong with a poorly maintained car it is catastrophic and spectacularly expensive to fix. Blown heads, grenaded engines, wrecked transmissions, etc., all come to mind.

If you are that type of owner then the Model 3 is going to be a "sticker shock" for you because some of the maintenance absolutely does have to be done or you are going to really affect the long term viability of the car's battery.

I know what I'm getting into with the Model 3. I coming over from a Honda Accord so for me it's not about saving money, it's about having a more enjoyable driving experience. If there are no good alternatives I'm going to be perfectly fine paying for Tesla's maintenance plan.

 

[JoseBQ]

How often battery cooling liquid change is necessary?

Is it possible to do it on your own?

Somewhere I read that tesla was releasing maintenance manuals to be done by third parties and reduce pressure on their service centers.

 

[TimM.]

Your approach is one I hope Tesla have taken into account. I've run into many Americans who have owned their cars for years and "done nothing" with them other than an oil change every year or two when they think about it.

To be clear, I don't "do nothing" with it.. I likely do more than what the dealer would.. just much cheaper either via a mechanic or myself. No way am I paying a dealer for some BS service while it's still under warranty.. I don't get how cooling fluid would be so catastrophic if not replaced after 2-3 years, by the way. Fluid is fluid.. did it leak out? Figure out why and fill it. If the temp is not stabilizing properly (similar to A/C not coming out cool enough), Tesla will know.

The service plan seems like the typical dealer crap that some bad dealers try to add on. Not that it's not beneficial -- just overpriced and unnecessary. So the article comparing some "recommended" overpriced service as if it's required is ludicrous.

 

[chronopc]

To be clear, I don't "do nothing" with it.. I likely do more than what the dealer would.. just much cheaper either via a mechanic or myself. No way am I paying a dealer for some BS service while it's still under warranty.. I don't get how cooling fluid would be so catastrophic if not replaced after 2-3 years, by the way. Fluid is fluid.. did it leak out? Figure out why and fill it. If the temp is not stabilizing properly (similar to A/C not coming out cool enough), Tesla will know.

The service plan seems like the typical dealer crap that some bad dealers try to add on. Not that it's not beneficial -- just overpriced and unnecessary. So the article comparing some "recommended" overpriced service as if it's required is ludicrous.

That's a good point. One of the ways I saved money with my car was to ignore the dealer's recommendations. One of the reason I hate dealership is I would take it in for a $30 oil change and they recommend like $800 worth of work my car doesn't need.

 

[TimM.]

The other reason I hate taking into a dealership is because they'd put in garbage petroleum oil instead of something like Amsoil fully synthetic that I can go 25,000 miles between changes (I'd just do it once a year at a convenient time each summer). And yes.. the bogus recommendations! That's why I love my mechanic (found an awesome one now that I'm prioritizing my own time more).. who gives me the real scoop on what needs to be done.

 

[voip-ninja]

To be clear, I don't "do nothing" with it.. I likely do more than what the dealer would.. just much cheaper either via a mechanic or myself. No way am I paying a dealer for some BS service while it's still under warranty.. I don't get how cooling fluid would be so catastrophic if not replaced after 2-3 years, by the way. Fluid is fluid.. did it leak out? Figure out why and fill it. If the temp is not stabilizing properly (similar to A/C not coming out cool enough), Tesla will know.

The service plan seems like the typical dealer crap that some bad dealers try to add on. Not that it's not beneficial -- just overpriced and unnecessary. So the article comparing some "recommended" overpriced service as if it's required is ludicrous.

You are mixing up two different things, one is the manufacturer recommended maintenance on the vehicle. The other is the service adds that the dealer often tries to pack in and do on the car when it's there for an oil change.

As an engineer I tend to take what the manufacturer says about service seriously. A good case study is BMW. BMW is incentivized to do LESS maintenance on their cars since they include it in the cost of the vehicle for the first 3-4 years.

If BMW puts something down as needing to be done in the first 3-4 years at certain time/mileage intervals it is probably something that actually needs to be done since they know what breaks on cars while they are still under warranty that they would be on the hook to fix if they skimped on maintenance.

Take the case of transmission fluid. Most cars call for transmission fluid swaps at around the 4-5 years or 50-60K mark. Does the car "really" need the transmission fluid swapped then? The only way you'd know is to take a sample of the transmission fluid and have it tested. Or you could just swap it as recommended. Or you could just take your chances on destroying a transmission which on some cars costs $3000 or more to fix or replace because you didn't want to do the maintenance.

You are partially correct that if the battery is not getting the proper thermal treatment from cooling/heating the car diagnostics would probably pick it up. Would it pick it up before you caused irreversible problems with the battery that Tesla won't warranty since you opted to skip the "silly" fluid change at the 2-3 year mark? Remember battery, conservatively, costs $15,000 or more plus labor to replace.

 

[Bad Horse]

Yeah, I don't get the need to overly change fluids all the time. Sure, you should do it occasionally but changing break fluid every 2-3 years is crazy. For crying out loud the brakes on a Tesla aren't going to be heavily used due to regen. It's like the adage of needing to change oil every 3000 miles. Come on. Do you need to do all the fluid flushes and whatnot? Of course, but doing it too much is just asinine. You're overpaying for not that much added protection.

Also, it depends on how you drive, obviously those who constantly over accelerate and brake harder than they should are going to wear their cars out faster than one who drives sensibly.

That being said, I would go in for the yearly tire rotation and alignment. Those things have more bearing on your drive, and woulds cost you range as well as tire wear and tear.

 

[voip-ninja]

Yeah, I don't get the need to overly change fluids all the time. Sure, you should do it occasionally but changing break fluid every 2-3 years is crazy. For crying out loud the brakes on a Tesla aren't going to be heavily used due to regen. It's like the adage of needing to change oil every 3000 miles. Come on. Do you need to do all the fluid flushes and whatnot? Of course, but doing it too much is just asinine. You're overpaying for not that much added protection.

Also, it depends on how you drive, obviously those who constantly over accelerate and brake harder than they should are going to wear their cars out faster than one who drives sensibly.

That being said, I would go in for the yearly tire rotation and alignment. Those things have more bearing on your drive, and woulds cost you range as well as tire wear and tear.

Over time brake fluid takes on water and becomes corrosive. You can change it or you can leave it alone and let it ruin your brake lines and other components along with the greatly degraded performance you get with old fluid that doesn't work as well as it should.

I know many, MANY people who have 10+ year old vehicles that have never changed the brake fluid. Do their brakes "work fine"? It's subjective. The pedal fade and poor performance would scare the crap out of me but they seem fine with planning their stops 10 seconds in advance. They also might be surprised when they eventually have to replace the brake lines and other things due to skimping on a simple preventative.

 

[chronopc]

For crying out loud the brakes on a Tesla aren't going to be heavily used due to regen.

I'm really looking forward to regen. I really enjoyed how quickly the car comes to a stop during my test drive of the Model S and it will be interesting to see what effect it has on the longevity of the brakes.

 

[Sportstick]

Over time brake fluid takes on water and becomes corrosive. You can change it or you can leave it alone and let it ruin your brake lines and other components along with the greatly degraded performance you get with old fluid that doesn't work as well as it should.

I know many, MANY people who have 10+ year old vehicles that have never changed the brake fluid. Do their brakes "work fine"? It's subjective. The pedal fade and poor performance would scare the crap out of me but they seem fine with planning their stops 10 seconds in advance. They also might be surprised when they eventually have to replace the brake lines and other things due to skimping on a simple preventative.

This is absolutely correct! For more info, and read all the way to the end....

What You Should Know About Brake Fluid

 

[chronopc]

Over time brake fluid takes on water and becomes corrosive. You can change it or you can leave it alone and let it ruin your brake lines and other components along with the greatly degraded performance you get with old fluid that doesn't work as well as it should.

I know many, MANY people who have 10+ year old vehicles that have never changed the brake fluid. Do their brakes "work fine"? It's subjective. The pedal fade and poor performance would scare the crap out of me but they seem fine with planning their stops 10 seconds in advance. They also might be surprised when they eventually have to replace the brake lines and other things due to skimping on a simple preventative.

I find it interesting that the 2015 Camry Maintenance Schedule doesn't even list the brake fluid. Would the frequency of how often you need to replace the brake fluid vary depending on the type of car?

 

[Sportstick]

I find it interesting that the 2015 Camry Maintenance Schedule doesn't even list the brake fluid. Would the frequency of how often you need to replace the brake fluid vary depending on the type of car?

You've found an interesting topic of conversation!

https://www.cars.com/articles/how-often-do-i-need-to-change-my-brake-fluid-1420680336417/

Toyota Camry is among those specifically mentioned as not having a factory recommendation. Interesting! Would have liked to have been in those internal meetings when they decided to pass on this issue! The larger concern is not the kind of car, but the humidity level in the environment. I would suggest that a car in Phoenix can go longer than one in Seattle, for example, without as much degredation from moisture in the brake fluid. With MB and BMW backgrounds, I tend to keep to a 2 year cycle.