Another 85D Battery / Charge Post

[joedaouddotcom]

Hello everyone,

I am a new Tesla owner as of ~ 2 weeks ago with a 2015 MS 85D. I have scoured these forums for hours reading about chargegate and batterygate etc... I hope to find some answers from those that have owned a 85D for longer than I have.

I have a service appointment with Tesla for the MCU2 upgrade next Saturday 11/5. They also just randomly added the eMMC recall replacement to my work order. I have tried using the supercharger a few times since purchase and found that the charge speed is ~30kW/hr the entire time when the battery is ~70% full till up to 90% then drops to a painful 3kW/hr or less.

I reached out to Tesla about this and similar to others, got the standard "remote diagnosis of your battery seems fine" reply (screenshots attached)

I still have around a year left on the battery warranty and I am trying to do as much diagnosis myself to understand if mine will last for years or if I need to try and request a replacement from Tesla. The Tessie app shows only 4.3% battery degradation (screenshot attached) but I don't know how much hope I can put into that figure.

I just started using TeslaFi but don't know what data points to look at or share with you guys to understand real health of the battery.

Appreciate any feedback from the community on this and if there is any other information needed please let me know.

 

[DerbyDave]

Your battery must be degraded 70% or more according to the warranty. Other than that, it must fail. Tesla determined your battery is "within spec". A new battery will probably degrade 5% in the first year or so. Degradation is generally much slower over the following years.

 

[maximizese]

That all seems about right. Pre-June 2019 software, the 85 kWh battery packs would charge at about 40kW at the 80% SOC (assuming optimal conditions such as being at an unshared V2 stall and a warm battery). Post-September 2019 software, the charging curve tapers much sooner and more severely causing the charge time to go from ~30%-90% to double. As a result, many of us don't Supercharge beyond 70% since our time is better spent driving to the next furthest Supercharger site with a reasonable low arrival %SOC in hopes of getting optimal charging speeds.

That's interesting about the eMMC recall with the MCU2 upgrade. Perhaps they do that to trigger a lower price or it's something technical so you can't claim a free eMMC replacement in the future (why would you with an MCU2). Anyways, I hope you enjoy the car and learn how to make it and your lifestyle work together.

 

[joedaouddotcom]

That all seems about right. Pre-June 2019 software, the 85 kWh battery packs would charge at about 40kW at the 80% SOC (assuming optimal conditions such as being at an unshared V2 stall and a warm battery). Post-September 2019 software, the charging curve tapers much sooner and more severely causing the charge time to go from ~30%-90% to double. As a result, many of us don't Supercharge beyond 70% since our time is better spent driving to the next furthest Supercharger site with a reasonable low arrival %SOC in hopes of getting optimal charging speeds.

That's interesting about the eMMC recall with the MCU2 upgrade. Perhaps they do that to trigger a lower price or it's something technical so you can't claim a free eMMC replacement in the future (why would you with an MCU2). Anyways, I hope you enjoy the car and learn how to make it and your lifestyle work together.

I get anxiety when its lower than 50% but I will definitely try your suggestion to see what results I get.

The SC actually ended up calling me today to say the with the MCU2 upgrade the eMMC recall is not applicable anymore. I dont know why they added it to my account but I guess I dont have to worry about it anymore.

 

[MP3Mike]

Your battery must be degraded 70% or more according to the warranty.

There is no degradation warranty on a 2015 Model S battery.

 

[ucmndd]

Everything you describe is normal/expected. There is no “request a replacement” - you can ask all you want, the answer will always be the same.

 

[EastCoast85D]

That’s normal. I routinely see 30ish once I cross into the 70s state of charge.

Starting at 30% I’ll see it start at 80kw and lose about 12kw per 10% increase in state of charge.

I only ever see 100kw starting from around 15% and it’s only ever for a couple minutes.

I also wouldn’t worry too much about it dropping below 50%. The shot below is from today. Averaged 55mph or so only due to some construction stop and go but as you can see you can get much better efficiency than rated at 300w/mi

 

[DerbyDave]

There is no degradation warranty on a 2015 Model S battery.

That is what I thought also, but my research before posting that evidently bad information indicates with information from Electrek that it is retroactive except for the 60kwh batteries manufactured before 2015. Tesla itself does not even make THAT distinction. I guess it all depends on the Tesla service people processing the warranty claim.

Tesla now covers degradation in Model S/X warranty — but leaves software loophole

Tesla has updated their warranty coverage for Model S and X cars, and it’s a mixed bag for owners. The...

electrek.co

Vehicle Warranty | Tesla Support

Find and view warranties for Tesla vehicles including New Vehicle Limited Warranty, Used Vehicle Limited Warranty and more.

www.tesla.com

 

[MP3Mike]

That is what I thought also, but my research before posting that evidently bad information indicates with information from Electrek that it is retroactive except for the 60kwh batteries manufactured before 2015.

So they retroactively added a degradation clause and removed the unlimited mileage portion? Ummm. No.

They can't retroactively change the warranty. The new warranty terms have an effective date and apply to new vehicles purchased on/after that date.

 

[DerbyDave]

So they retroactively added a degradation clause and removed the unlimited mileage portion? Ummm. No.

They can't retroactively change the warranty. The new warranty terms have an effective date and apply to new vehicles purchased on/after that date.

OK, Electrek and Tesla are wrong -- you say. BTW, warranties can expand coverage. The customer can say he declines the added free coverage if he choses, and pay for the repair. What is your source that 2015 and earlier are not covered? I can not find this limitation on Tesla's site.

 

[MP3Mike]

OK, Electrek and Tesla are wrong -- you say. BTW, warranties can expand coverage. The customer can say he declines the added free coverage if he choses, and pay for the repair. What is your source that 2015 and earlier are not covered? I can not find this limitation on Tesla's site.

The current public warranty document, https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf, has an effective date of 3/22/2021:

So if someone bought a new 2015 Model S from Tesla on/after 3/22/21 those terms would apply. (That seems highly unlikely.)

Otherwise you have to find the version of the document with the newest date that is older than the purchase date of the vehicle, to find the terms that apply. (In theory the "glovebox" in your Tesla account should contain the warranty that applies to your vehicle based on the original purchase date of the vehicle, but sometimes they don't always have the correct one in there.)

 

[DerbyDave]

Tesla Model 3 had a 70% battery warranty since its introduction in 2017.

Tesla releases Model 3 warranty with new 70% battery capacity retention guarantee

As Tesla is starting regular Model 3 deliveries this week, the company released the full warranty document for its new...

electrek.co

 

[ucmndd]

Tesla Model 3 had a 70% battery warranty since its introduction in 2017.

But the S/X did not.

The warranty terms in place when you bought your vehicle apply for the life of the vehicle. They cannot be changed.

Manufacturers can issue supplemental warranty extensions that are in addition to the original terms at their discretion, but they cannot negatively alter the original terms (for example changing an unlimited mile warranty to a not unlimited mile warranty).

Any/all 2015 Model S have an 8 year unlimited mile battery and drive unit warranty. Without exception.

 

[Rocky_H]

Any/all 2015 Model S have an 8 year unlimited mile battery and drive unit warranty. Without exception.

...except the 60's. They did have a specified mileage limit.

 

[ucmndd]

...except the 60's. They did have a specified mileage limit.

Thanks for that. I forgot the 60s were still around in 2015.

 

[AustinP]

Hello everyone,

I am a new Tesla owner as of ~ 2 weeks ago with a 2015 MS 85D. I have scoured these forums for hours reading about chargegate and batterygate etc... I hope to find some answers from those that have owned a 85D for longer than I have.

Welcome!

I have tried using the supercharger a few times since purchase and found that the charge speed is ~30kW/hr the entire time when the battery is ~70% full till up to 90% then drops to a painful 3kW/hr or less.

The curve is more a line: %SoC+kW = 100...110. So indeed, at 70%, you will get around 30kW. Above 90%, it's very slow.

I still have around a year left on the battery warranty and I am trying to do as much diagnosis myself to understand if mine will last for years or if I need to try and request a replacement from Tesla. The Tessie app shows only 4.3% battery degradation (screenshot attached) but I don't know how much hope I can put into that figure.

I just started using TeslaFi but don't know what data points to look at or share with you guys to understand real health of the battery.

Appreciate any feedback from the community on this and if there is any other information needed please let me know.

According to this post, Preventative Maintenance regarding Battery Failures in early Model S vehicles (2012-2014), the main battery issue is with batteries up to VIN 70k or build until early 2015. If yours still has one year of warranty, I guess it was built end of 2015, so your battery's life expectancy is not the worst.

Here is what I'd recommend: The Nav is quite accurate in estimating your % at arrival (and returning). Even for known errants or journeys, put them in the nav. Don't be afraid to go below 50%. But... avoid venturing (arriving) below 15%... until you are familiar with the factors that can influence the consumption (mostly weather... and your foot).
When starting a longer journey, respect speed limits, and see how the estimated % at arrival varies (or not). Then you can decide to adapt your speed and arrive "safely".

 

[P85D-low-range]

Same issue - car is service for battery. Tesla refuses to answer me when I ask about battery pack degradation. Range is approximately half of what it states - p85d. Any suggestions what to tell them to get some help? Would love 90 kWh battery pack before my warranty ends, if at all possible. If you have any ideas for avenues I can pursue with them, please let me know!

Collecting stats on TeslaFi but can't make sense of them...