Well, if you drive a lot, then it is supposed to make sense (it would if it wasn't for that surprise maintenance), and if you drive very little it also makes sense because ICE cars rot when not driven. It's the "average" where it's questionable.
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Well, if you drive a lot, then it is supposed to make sense (it would if it wasn't for that surprise maintenance), and if you drive very little it also makes sense because ICE cars rot when not driven. It's the "average" where it's questionable.
Ok. Even the minimal S is 50k+ or 25k-35k more than the more than adequate rides of Ford Fusion, Hyundai Sonata, Toyota Camry or even Prius. So if you can lay out 25k more than necessary now, you can handle a $1800 A/C out of warranty.
And hey my '95 merlot addition miata (now my son's) does require maintenance but even replacing the radiator recently for about $700 pales to the cost of a new car. (and still such a head turner!)
I have written to Tesla and pointed out their missed opportunity on the drivetrain warranty. They could easily out do BMW, Porsche etc in this area, but oddly they have not even matched them.
Still it would be unlikely for an electronically commutated motor like the one in the S to fail anytime soon. And if it does, then I'd bet Tesla would make good on it. And with the success of SpaceX coupled with the resolve of Musk it's unlikely that Tesla won't be around in some form.
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My wife has averaged 25,000 miles per year until last year when she only did 23,000 because we bought a car for our kids. We would normally have to pay for 2 scheduled 12,500 mile service fees/yr but we're refusing to pay it due to Tesla's price gouging after years of touting how this car is designed for low maintenance and misleading us into believing it will cost much less than an ICE vehicle, etc. We're hoping to get 10 years out of the battery.
I put about 12k miles on my Roadster /yr. Since buying the Roadster, driving has become something I look forward to. It used to be drudgery.
I put about 12k miles on my Roadster /yr. Since buying the Roadster, driving has become something I look forward to. It used to be drudgery.
mnx
2018 M3P
I've put almost exactly 20,000 kms on my car the last 2 years. I'm guessing the Model S will be similar... Of course that # may go up. 
Yeah but if you take $7.5k off from the feds $5k off from the state (Georgia does this). And then calculate a savings of $3k per year for fuel (very low power rates, and 20,000 miles a year) After 5-6 years I am paying the same as the Fusion, Sonata, Camry. I have great credit, well because I don't have any debt (other than my mortgage) and will finance most of my car.
And I am not worried about stuff breaking out of warranty. But the maintenance costs that are almost triple what my current car cost me (and that is averaged over 110,000 miles).
I'm not sure what your point is, but anyway, I don't mind the Model S maintenance stuff a bit. If I gave that impression, sorry. If that wasn't your point in this paragraph, sorry. ;-) BTW I love my Miata...I'm impressed yours is still running. I doubt mine (5 years younger) would last another 5 years! Not sure if it's me (am I too hard on it?) or DC area roads (which truly bite!). Hopefully the Model S with active air suspension will survive these roads better! ;-)
My point was only that I plan on driving my S much more than my ICE (cheaper to operate, more reliable drivetrain, more FUN!) and that anyone who can afford an S can afford to maintain it even out of warranty.
I look forward to swapping the battery for one with twice the range and (hopefully) half the weight. $20k?
My wife and I enjoy the show Wheeler Dealers on Velocity channel - any classic car can be continually renewed for much cheaper than new.
Here's the Miata episode. (part 1) Wheeler Dealers - S03E09 S03E10 - Mazda MX-5 Part - Car Videos on StreetFire
I think for some (and I may be one of them), the very fact that they stretched so far to purchase a Model S is precisely why they can't afford to maintain it outside of warranty.
Model S has one of the weakest warranties I've seen. Low number of miles/years; compulsory annual (or in my case 6 month) "inspections"; no paint or rust-through warranty of any kind and so forth.
We have absolutely no way of knowing if the drivetrain is more reliable. If it were, I would think Tesla would provide a better standard warranty.
I, for one, am going to be very unhappy if I start having expensive repairs after my warranty has run out (in my case, at about 2 1/2 years). I would be more than wlling to pay for an extended warranty to alleviate some of these concerns (have done so on many ICE cars over the years), but Tesla doesn't seem to offer that.
My reservation deposit is still in, but I'd be lying if I said these things don't concern me.
+1. I don't know what your cost of capital is, but the present value of all the gas you won't have to buy (for the miles you drive, 24k/yr - similar to us) is almost $50,000.* That makes the 85kWh model approximately equal to a $30,000 car. The bottom line is people who buy $30,000 cars can be very sensitive to high maintenance costs. Tesla kind of ruined things by announcing their opportunistic required maintenance fees after claiming the car was designed for almost no maintenance.
*assumptions:
1) your cost of capital is 4%. A bit low but my credit union is offering loans for the Model S at 1.49%, so maybe 4% is reasonable.
2) price of gas $4.05/gal, equivalent gas car would get 28 mpg.
3) the price of gas will not rise any faster than the general rate of inflation. If you assume that it will rise at a rate that is 1.5% higher than the rate of inflation, then the present value is over $60,000. example: general inflation 3%, gasoline goes up 4.5% during same period.
4) your electricity is almost free because you installed enough solar panels or do all your charging at superchargers.
Jaff
Active Member
My wife will be driving the Model S from Grimsby to Oakville & back as a daily driver...historically, she'll put on about 30- 33,000 km / year so we'll be looking at blowing the 4 year warranty out early as well...
Our family (four drivers, using three vehicles) drives way too much, a function of our location on the Canadian prairies and busy lives. Total annual kilometres is about 75,000. About 20-25K of these are on a business truck, about 40K a year are with an aging Corolla and another 10-15K on a converted to electric, Miata. My motivation for driving electric is partly economic, partly environmental and partly pragmatic. The switch from fossil fuel will happen whether we want it or not, may as well be proactive.
I share the warranty/service concerns raised by others. It is likely we'll put 40,000 kilometres a year on the S. This will make for a very short calendar life for the warranty and pretty expensive annual service cost. Not thrilled about either of these. Still, I believe that a well designed and built EV should be more durable and have fewer repair costs over the life of the vehicle. This is what I keep telling myself in any case!
I share the warranty/service concerns raised by others. It is likely we'll put 40,000 kilometres a year on the S. This will make for a very short calendar life for the warranty and pretty expensive annual service cost. Not thrilled about either of these. Still, I believe that a well designed and built EV should be more durable and have fewer repair costs over the life of the vehicle. This is what I keep telling myself in any case!
A couple of things: The car is more expensive in Canada due to import duties being applied. Gas (converted from metric) works out to just under $5/US Gallon and my Off-Peak electricity rate is $0.1220/kWh, and my current Cadillac CTS is getting about 22 MPG. I figure it's equivalent to a lot more than a $30k ICE car, but nonetheless, I AM sensitive to potentially high maintenance costs.
sp4rk
Banned
Wow, I'd completely overlooked that!
Here I was, with a "musky" grin on my face, thinking how LOVELY it WOULD be to drive from Illinois to California and all sorts of other places using the network; but yes,. that would so quickly put me in the next tax bracket, I mean warranty bracket; now I see how he's paying for it!!!
With our service plans!
Here I was, with a "musky" grin on my face, thinking how LOVELY it WOULD be to drive from Illinois to California and all sorts of other places using the network; but yes,. that would so quickly put me in the next tax bracket, I mean warranty bracket; now I see how he's paying for it!!!
With our service plans!
mknox, I've been rethinking whether the $600 fee every 12.5k miles was excessive. My first thought was that it was no big deal but then I compared it to the cost to run the car.
The S is rated at something like 90 MPGe so if gas is $4/gal then that 4/90 or 4.4 cents per mile.
So the maintenance fee is $600 for 12.5k miles so thats 600/12,500 or 4.8 cents per mile.
So the maintenance fee more than doubles your operation costs! YES IT'S EXCESSIVE!
The S is rated at something like 90 MPGe so if gas is $4/gal then that 4/90 or 4.4 cents per mile.
So the maintenance fee is $600 for 12.5k miles so thats 600/12,500 or 4.8 cents per mile.
So the maintenance fee more than doubles your operation costs! YES IT'S EXCESSIVE!
I'm cooling down a bit on this myself, but what I will say is that with ALL of my past cars, if something broke under warranty, I took it in and got it fixed. I wasn't required to have annual inspections and there were only a few "compulsory" actions I had to take like Oil and Filter changes which I could do myself if I wanted.
sublimaze1
8Dec2012 / Leeroy Jenkins
I tend to agree with this ... although my first two years will be quasi-local. As it stands (apparently) there will only be three supercharger areas I can take advantage of - DFW-HOU, HOU-SAT, SAT-DFW. I can potentially manage to get it to a Louisiana supercharger, but it is right on the edge of range. Plus, I would be doing so with a mounted Thule rack and luggage (I would be taking myself and all four girls (the youngest two are 3,6). So, low mileage in 2013 (maybe 12-14K), then - with supercharger network, I may even take two weeks vacation in the summer and drive back east. Cost me zero in gas, I mean electric, until I get east of the Chesapeake Bay, 'cause y'all know they ain't gonna be puttin' none 'dem superchargers in the Eastern Sho'
