accident with cyclist in Santa Cruz

[Raffy.Roma]

@Lloyd

You are right but IMO when it comes to human life safety has to be guaranteed also to negligent cyclists and pedestrians. That's why I am in favour of automatic systems in order to guarantee safety.

 

[JRP3]

There is never a guarantee of safety in anything.

 

[DuncanWatson]

This is the most upsetting thread I have read on this forum , apart from the one involving a crash with a Honda and 2 people lost their lives. As a fellow cyclist and human being, my heart aches for the cyclist's family. It also aches for the man who caused this terrible tragedy as I can't imagine that he did it on purpose. Sad sad reality check.

I have no sympathy for the driver. PEROD. Cyclists and Pedistrians get the short end of the legal stick in every case. Crashes like this are rarely even investigated, DAs refuse to press charges, in many cases the Police don't issue tickets claiming that they don't want to interfere with investigations. The investigation then turns into nothing and the driver drives without any penalty. Meanwhile everyone talks about the emotional burden on the driver.

It gets frustrating just keeping track of the people who have died on my cycle route to and from work, let alone the Seattle area.

This wasn't a Model S issue, this is a bad driver issue.

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When I lived in Vancouver, I cycled thousands of miles a year. Now I'm in Texas and you couldn't get me on a bike. Drivers just aren't aware and many think that bicycles don't have any rights.

This accident appears to be an unfortunate case of the cyclist being in the wrong place at the wrong time (as far as I can tell) because the driver was not in control of the car and the cyclist just happened to be in its path. However, most car/bike accidents are caused by poor bike riding habits. I'm a big believer that every cyclist should take the Effective Cycling course and study the book that goes with the course. People who don't ride should read the book as well.

I recommend we keep all Cycling mode discussions out of this thread. Citing John Forester is one way to start a flame war on any commuter cyclist forum. Quoting it as fact when even you who is an advocate of it won't ride in Texas seems inflamatory.

This case was purely the fault of the driver, he crossed 3 lanes of traffic to kill a cyclist who was part of a group of cyclists on the opposing side of the road. He should have just hit the darn car in front of him that he almost hit due to negligence. His response instead pushed his massive vehicle into a much softer target who died because of it.

 

[sp4rk]

@Lloyd

You are right but IMO when it comes to human life safety has to be guaranteed also to negligent cyclists and pedestrians. That's why I am in favour of automatic systems in order to guarantee safety.

Just because one apparently NEGLIGENT driver who happens to a Model S owner sadly kills an innocent cyclist, is no reason to force so called automatic systems on the rest of the world.

A school bus driver was responsible for killing 7 children in a school bus almost 20 years ago. At a railroad crossing.
1995 Fox River Grove bus–train collision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
She didn't have enough room to park her bus between the "other side" of the rails and the main road. The back of the bus was hanging over the rails. Seven Angles Crossing it's called, after the train blew the back of the bus off.
Since then, ALL buses have to stop and open their doors at every railroad crossing ... Federal or state? ... because of one person.
So, what happens when each one of a million bad drivers does something ... do we pass a law to protect us from their individual failings? No!

 

[strider]

Yeah, what does this have to do w/ Tesla? Yes it's a tragedy but the kind of car had exactly zero to do w/ this.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

@sp4rk

We are not on a legislative site like but on a forum discussing the best way to avoid an accident like that described on this thread. Now IMO the best way is to offer at least as an option an automatic system preventing such accidents. But then it's up to the judgment of the single driver to get it or not.
To this concern I would like to point out that Elon said that within three years Tesla will offer completely automatic driving system for Tesla cars. IMO in Elon's mind the main reason for developing such automatic driving system is for safety reasons. Personally I would like a semi-automatic driving system helping me in emergency situation integrated with the ACC and working at all speeds. But this is only my opinion.
I would like to add that in 2015 the ACC able to stop completely the car will be compulsory in Europe.

 

[DuncanWatson]

The responsibility for this killing crash is the driver's not Tesla's. If you want to make a thread on automated safety features than that is where the discussion of such belong. This thread is a driver playing with his phone avoids crashing into a car and instead cross three lanes of traffic to kill a cyclist on the other side of the road.

From my POV he shouldn't have a license to drive anymore and I wouldn't mind if his car was crushed by the state.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

@DuncanWatson

Of course the responsability of this accident is not of Tesla. I don't really understand how you could infer from my words that it was responsability of Tesla. Of course it is spontaneous in such a thread to express opinions concerning automated safety features IMO.

 

[DuncanWatson]

@Raffy.Roma
When you say an accident avoidance system could have prevented this accident specifically as you did on the first page (quoted below) and combined with some of the removed posts from this thread (not yours) it is easy enough to infer it is Tesla's fault at least in part.

I would like to add that this system also activates the brakes automatically in case of detection of obstacles. In this case, since the accident started because the driver tried to avoid another car, IMO it would have helped because it would have stopped the car before that the driver turned the steer.

Now the system you quoted is a city speed system and likely wouldn't have functioned at this speed though the same exact result as happend is not likely.

For me the offensive part is that the driver of a multi-ton vehicle is held blameless (again by inference and not by you). This was his fault and his responsibility not to kill people with his car. Measuring death of the victim vs the emotional state of the driver is highly offensive. Especially given that killing somone in a family will often induce financial harm to the victims family and employer. Yet in most cases drivers face nearly zero consequences. I am not speaking of potential consequences based on the interpretation of written law but what happens in the bulk of incidents in the US. Watching friends and associates die and nothing happen gets frustrating.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

@DuncanWatson

For what is concerning the technical aspect of your post I cannot answer to you because the Moderator asked not to talk about it in this thread. I can only say that I disagree with you.
But I think that the main point here is my opinion that an accident avoidance system could have prevented this accident. Now we all know that 99% of the cars around the world have not such an accident avoidance system installed. Does it mean that all automakers around the world are responsible for all accidents around the world? Of course the answer to this question is NO.
I also would like to add that I have no responsability for what has been said in the removed posts. None of my posts has been removed also if I asked to the Moderator to remove them in case they were not suited to this thread.

 

[Trnsl8r]

What I'm hoping to see on this thread is responses on how you (personally) intend not to be that second Tesla driver to kill a cyclist or pedestrian.

Thanks for your post and bringing the right tone to this thread. I'd like to add that according to the written article in the initial post, the driver had fallen asleep at the wheel, woken up at the left side of the road and in panic swerved to avoid a head-on collision with another car. That he was driving a Tesla seems coincidental to me.

But to answer your question, here's what I'll do: Never get behind the wheel inebriated or fatigued, and encourage anyone else to follow suit. If I get tired behind the wheel, I'll pull over for coffee and a break. There's no excuses for falling asleep while driving.

 

[ABVA]

Do agree with you, that it sounds more like a serious driver error. Not discounting the tragic demise of another innocent human being, As for power, there are lots of other vehicles on the road which have more power and are much heavier than Tesla Model S. However, building safety features not just in Tesla but other vehicles as well deserves serious considerations.

 

[DuncanWatson]

But to answer your question, here's what I'll do: Never get behind the wheel inebriated or fatigued, and encourage anyone else to follow suit. If I get tired behind the wheel, I'll pull over for coffee and a break. There's no excuses for falling asleep while driving.

I agree with you 100%. This is one of the reasons why I don't mind the current Supercharger and range limitations. No one should be driving 500 miles without a stop.

 

[NoMoGas]

As for the driver stepping out of the car holding his cell phone, I'd imagine that's exactly what most people would do if they just hit someone, grab the phone and call 911 as they get out of the vehicle.

Absolutely true.

 

[EnergyMax]

I ride several thousand miles per year, and am always troubled and saddened by these tragic losses of life. I have known people horribly injured by cars, and have even been lightly hit by a distracted driver, but luckily was not injured.

As long as cars and bicycles coexist, we will read these stories. This is not a Tesla story, but another vehicle and bike story.

 

[brianman]

Actually the car's handsfree system is so awful that I also have to hold my phone or use the speakerphone in my phone. The Model S handsfree reception, at least in my particular vehicle, is unusable. I am constantly breaking up, according to everyone who calls me.

This doesn't match my experience. I almost never touch my phone while I'm in the car, unless I'm parked and plugging it in to charge it. It's in a holster on my hip when I enter and exit the vehicle. When initiating and receiving calls, it's all done with voice or the 17". Reception and call quality is fine.

 

[DuncanWatson]

I ride several thousand miles per year, and am always troubled and saddened by these tragic losses of life. I have known people horribly injured by cars, and have even been lightly hit by a distracted driver, but luckily was not injured.

As long as cars and bicycles coexist, we will read these stories. This is not a Tesla story, but another vehicle and bike story.

This is another car culture story. Hearing it put like you do above makes me livid and want to respond, "then get rid of the d*** killer cars"

 

[brianman]

I would be holding my phone in that circumstance to call 911 and assist anyone injured while talking on the phone. You would not be able if the phone was in the wrecked car.

Not so. I keep seeing these commercials for OnStar or whatever after something has wrecked. And the TV never lies.

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but i am hearing about FAR too many careless driving tragedies these days, and the fact that they're all (on this board) involving model s's is doubly heartbreaking.

The underlined part confuses me. Firstly, they're not all Model S; some are Roadsters. Secondly, those are the only type of wrecks that are directly on-topic for TMC so of course those will be the ones you see here.

This comes to mind:

Do you have anything here besides Mexican food?

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This is another car culture story. Hearing it put like you do above makes me livid and want to respond, "then get rid of the d*** killer cars"

So get rid of all cars? Even bicycle-sized cars could be deadly.

 

[wiztecy]

This happened 10 miles north of my home. It does appear the

 

[Lyon]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of the deceased and to the driver of the car.

Let this be a reminder to all of us to be vigilant while behind the wheel of the a car. We've all done stupid things and had moments of inattention; most of those mistakes don't end up in tragedy but they all could.