Here is a simple way to make everyone happy with super charging idle fees: don't charge them unless the initial projected time to charge has passed. If we hookup to the supercharger and it initially says 45 minutes to charge to the rate set, what excuse could we possible have if idle fees are charged after that time?
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A simple way to make everyone happy with super charging idle fees
- Thread starter Jaybird
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houstonian
ಠ_ಠ
Yes, everyone will be happy. I said with the way idle fees are applied. I never said people will be happy with cars parked while not charging. Please don't try to twist around my words. Everything would work exactly as it does now, but idle fees will only be charged if the car has been idle longer than the projected time. People will still get messages as they got before that their car is close to or done charging. I guess you are in favor of penalizing people and think they are trying to leave their cars parked on purpose. I doubt that is the case. However, it is frustratring when you get an idle charge when your car stops charging for no apparent reason and the notice comes after five minutes. I guess it may need to happen to you to realize how unfair that is. The superchargers are put near shopping centers and restaurants, there is a reason for that and people need to be able to rely on how long they have to do shop and eat. I don't know about others, but I don't particularly enjoy having to sit around in my car out of fear that idle fees will be misapplied.
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I have no idea how how often it occurs, but once $18.50 for an idle fee occurred for me when the supercharger failed to recognize that it should not accrue idle charges for me while at the same time my car was charging. Or when the time when my car stopped charging before the limit that was set and the message arrived on my phone after five minutes resulting in an idle fee. Or when calling to get it waived I was told by a Tesla charging support rep that we can get 'idle fees' at some stations that are not because you are parked while not charging, but rather a percentage of what your car charged and that some high usage superchargers will stop charging at 90% or 95% without previous notice (even when you have free supercharging for your car). Based on my experience, there is probably a good number of people that are simply convinced by a authoritative person that their charges are legit, and they give up even though the charges were in error or unfairly applied. The system is broken, I think this will come to light soon and you can find other complaints on this forum.
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GHammer
Dark Star
The system is not broken. As I posted in your other thread, in 9 years, 3 cars, 300k miles, over 2000 charging sessions at 1500 different superchargers, I have never been assesed an Idle fee.
houstonian
ಠ_ಠ
In this case it seems like a software glitch? That is to say your car was charging and accruing idle fees concurrently. Did you report the issue to Tesla, and if so, did they do any follow up?
Do you recall if there was a technical issue here triggering the SC to stop or was it the 'we've set your charge limit to 80% due to being at a high use station'?
I think (?) what you're describing is the auto set down of charging level - see prior point - any more details you can share?
Could be, but can report in my 250k+ of miles driven in S/Xs with heavy SC usage the system has, so far, worked as advertised for myself. As always others MMV.
I reported it the simultaneous charge and idle fees racking up to the Tesla Charging rep at the main number who then waived that idle fee. No explanation on that one. On the one that stopped, when I first started charging it gave the 80% limit notice, I then reset it to 100%. It then stopped at 96% with a notification that arrived five minutes after it stopped. I contacted the Tesla Charging rep supervisor and he said to get the car checked out. I setup a service appointment, and then messaged them the details including that I had successfully charged twice after that to 100% once at the same location but a different unit. They said it was probably not my car and an issue with the specific supercharger. They just suggested I keep monitoring my car. BTW, I almost never charge to 100%. I did it this time because I had a long trip and planned on heavy a/c usage and then twice just to confirm that my car can charge without prematurely stopping. I didn't misunderstand the rep that claimed that some chargers can charge an percentage of what you charge for free as an idle fee or that some chargers can stop even after the 80% limit such as 90% or 95%. I told him that I never heard of that, I asked him to show me it in writing, we read the supercharger page and I told him it did not mean what he was saying. Then he checked with his supervisor. When he returned on the phone with me he explained that he was completely wrong in what he was telling me, he apologized, he indicated my understanding was correct and explained he had started as a Tesla rep only four days prior.
The only thing on my end that I can think of that could be causing some software issue is that my battery was replaced a couple of years ago and I think at that time I read that there were no more 85kwh batteries and that replacements were 90kwh. I haven't had time to check out what they put in my car yet.
I think this discussion is relevant, because I am not happy with idle fees that I don't think I deserved to get. I think this is probably happening to more and more people and they either don't try to get the fees waived or they are talked into accepting that a erroneous idle fee is legitimate. But more importantly, wouldn't it be nice, at the beginning of a supercharging session, to see how long it is going to take and know that even if it finished earlier that you would have the time you expected before idle fees were accruing and stressing you out to get to your car when you get messages?
Lastly, these problems only happened recently. Like others I've had years of supercharging in multiple location in the US and had zero issues until very recently.
The only thing on my end that I can think of that could be causing some software issue is that my battery was replaced a couple of years ago and I think at that time I read that there were no more 85kwh batteries and that replacements were 90kwh. I haven't had time to check out what they put in my car yet.
I think this discussion is relevant, because I am not happy with idle fees that I don't think I deserved to get. I think this is probably happening to more and more people and they either don't try to get the fees waived or they are talked into accepting that a erroneous idle fee is legitimate. But more importantly, wouldn't it be nice, at the beginning of a supercharging session, to see how long it is going to take and know that even if it finished earlier that you would have the time you expected before idle fees were accruing and stressing you out to get to your car when you get messages?
Lastly, these problems only happened recently. Like others I've had years of supercharging in multiple location in the US and had zero issues until very recently.
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ucmndd
Well-Known Member
My vote is no.
If your car stops charging at a busy station for any reason - whether it finished earlier than expected or charging completed at 98% instead of 100% because of a badly misbalanced battery that hasn’t been charged to 100% in 5 years - you need to move your damn car. Get on it, and get it out of the way. Charging stations are for charging. Waiting on a car not charging for any reason before I can plug in does not make me happy, and making someone wait shouldn’t make you happy either. Even if you have to get up in the middle of your cheeseburger happy meal.
Billing errors are another thing. Sounds like Tesla has accommodated you in that regard, so it’s not clear what the problem is.
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Don't let a few voices fool you that are trying to say that this post is about encouraging people to park at charger without charging. The purpose of this post is to bring to light that Tesla is making many errors in their application of idle fees and to offer a suggestion that would alleviate the frustration and waste of time these errors cause. Idle fees may make sense, but when they are applied in error, this serves to harm Tesla's reputation. We need a system to avoid these errors, not a lack of forgiveness in punishing Tesla owners even when they have in good faith made every attempt to make sure their car is gone after they charge. There are far more people getting hit with idle fee errors than these few voices would like you to believe. If Tesla didn't make errors in charging idle fees, you wouldn't be reading this post. Do a search on "Tesla idle fee error" and you will find plenty of others talking about the errors, even at this forum website.
If a fairly simple system is buggy, then making that system more complex will make things worse.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
The entire premise of this argument - that the system is badly broken and needs complex fixes due to rampant errors - is completely unsubstantiated.
Sounds like you’ve had some problems in the past that were rectified by Tesla. One being an actual billing error and one being your CAR completing charging earlier than you wanted it to (NOT the charger). Gesturing wildly toward the internet and saying “look, problems!” provides no context for frequency. Countless others are initiating millions of charging sessions per day and have never had problems. By every objective measure the supercharger network is an order of magnitude more reliable and easy to use than any other charging network in existence.
There’s no there there.
Sounds like you’ve had some problems in the past that were rectified by Tesla. One being an actual billing error and one being your CAR completing charging earlier than you wanted it to (NOT the charger). Gesturing wildly toward the internet and saying “look, problems!” provides no context for frequency. Countless others are initiating millions of charging sessions per day and have never had problems. By every objective measure the supercharger network is an order of magnitude more reliable and easy to use than any other charging network in existence.
There’s no there there.
The entire premise of your argument seems to be either there are no problems or they are too few to bother with. I think there are people reading this that will realize that you are trying to claim I things that I've never indicated, such as that my car finished charging early, that I am trying to characterize the idle fees system is 'badly' broken, I am wild, or that I eat cheeseburgers and don't want to get up to move my car—Instead of focusing on the topic of the errors causing people frustration. When you attack a person it shows you don't have confidence in addressing the issue. That is why I attempted to apologize for anything rude I've said and again I am sorry if I've offended anyone. This is my last response to anything you say because now you are the one being rude. Go ahead, fire away if feel the need.
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The estimated time to completion is an estimate, not a quote that you can take to the bank. Like @GHammer, I haven't been assessed an idle fee in over 200,000 miles and 1400+ Superchargers visited. Best practice is to keep an eye on your charging session via the Tesla app. If charging stops for whatever reason, it can usually be restarted from the app.
While I agree that your experience was not ideal, it appears to be an extreme outlier, since this is the first time I've heard of this in over 6 years of forum membership.
While I agree that your experience was not ideal, it appears to be an extreme outlier, since this is the first time I've heard of this in over 6 years of forum membership.
In the first post I said "projected." In the second post, someone pointed out this is the same as "estimate." Yes, I too have never had a problem until very recently. In this post users are indicating that premature stopping has happened:
teslamotorsclub.com
also,
teslamotorsclub.com
But it makes sense that people haven't heard of this—yet. Complaints of Tesla idle fee errors are mostly very recent as in the last few months. I've been driving my car since 2017 with no idle fees until the last few months—waived because they were errors.
As far as simultaneous charging and idle fees in one session, there is a cause I can explain, but it still should not have happened. I hooked up to the charger then noticed that I needed to improve my parking, so I disconnected and then moved my car a little in the same space. I then reconnected and started the charging again. While not the greatest thing to do I suppose, the supercharger shouldn't have racked up 39 minutes of idle fees while also charging my car at the same time.
SC Idle fee...??
I charged my car yesterday at a SC for approx. 20 minutes, didn't even get to my 90% charge and yet received a notice of a "waived" idle fee despite not even fully charging. Has anyone had this happen to them, is this just a one-off error on their part? I went from 200 to 240 miles, far short of...
teslamotorsclub.com
Supercharger - Lubbock (SC), TX
I wonder if Lubbock’s reluctance to embrace EVs is because it is very near the heart of the gas and oil areas around the Permian basin. Also, you can earn a degree in Petroleum Engineering at Tech. Well, that and that area is heavy in the agriculture and oil industry so everyone, has trucks...
teslamotorsclub.com
But it makes sense that people haven't heard of this—yet. Complaints of Tesla idle fee errors are mostly very recent as in the last few months. I've been driving my car since 2017 with no idle fees until the last few months—waived because they were errors.
As far as simultaneous charging and idle fees in one session, there is a cause I can explain, but it still should not have happened. I hooked up to the charger then noticed that I needed to improve my parking, so I disconnected and then moved my car a little in the same space. I then reconnected and started the charging again. While not the greatest thing to do I suppose, the supercharger shouldn't have racked up 39 minutes of idle fees while also charging my car at the same time.
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So I had an opportunity today to chat with a technician working on some Tesla superchargers. I can't attest to the accuracy of this info other than who said it. He said that if your car's limit is set to 100% and is struggling for some time to get there, superchargers can stop their charging of your vehicle. He also said that in order to calibrate the battery, which should either not be done or be done very rarely, you really need to go down to below 10% and also bring it up to 100%.
In the first post I said "projected." In the second post, someone pointed out this is the same as "estimate." Yes, I too have never had a problem until very recently. In this post users are indicating that premature stopping has happened:
also,SC Idle fee...??
I charged my car yesterday at a SC for approx. 20 minutes, didn't even get to my 90% charge and yet received a notice of a "waived" idle fee despite not even fully charging. Has anyone had this happen to them, is this just a one-off error on their part? I went from 200 to 240 miles, far short of...
Supercharger - Lubbock (SC), TX
I wonder if Lubbock’s reluctance to embrace EVs is because it is very near the heart of the gas and oil areas around the Permian basin. Also, you can earn a degree in Petroleum Engineering at Tech. Well, that and that area is heavy in the agriculture and oil industry so everyone, has trucks...
But it makes sense that people haven't heard of this—yet. Complaints of Tesla idle fee errors are mostly very recent as in the last few months. I've been driving my car since 2017 with no idle fees until the last few months—waived because they were errors.
As far as simultaneous charging and idle fees in one session, there is a cause I can explain, but it still should not have happened. I hooked up to the charger then noticed that I needed to improve my parking, so I disconnected and then moved my car a little in the same space. I then reconnected and started the charging again. While not the greatest thing to do I suppose, the supercharger shouldn't have racked up 39 minutes of idle fees while also charging my car at the same time.
Projected, estimated... same difference. Neither is a guarantee, and you should monitor your charging session and be prepared to respond to any issues.
As for simultaneous charging and idle fees in the same session, that is a concerning issue that Tesla needs to address. Again, first time I've heard of this.
I was monitoring the charges and a it was at 95% a moment before the notification came five minutes late to say my supercharging stopped at 96% (again before my limit that was set to 100%). I disconnected and moved my car immediately (in under ten seconds because I was waiting with my car (albeit outside just feet away). Still it was after five minutes because the notification was late. If you want to say it was my fault because I should have not attempted to charge my car to 100% at a high occupancy charge station even though there were stalls empty because it is very slow to charge to that level, well then I am guilty as charged. It was taking a very long time (15-20 minutes) to do that last bit of charging but I was trying to do it so that my battery would stay calibrated. It was after a long trip from out of state and I happened to be at very low level of charge where I am not typically. I had not charged the battery to 100% in the last year or so, maybe more. My understanding was to best calibrate a battery you want to be at a very low level and go to 100%. My car is nine years old and I've had it for over six of those years, so I am not entirely ignorant of things. Again, I am not arguing to be able to keep my car parked idle in a Tesla charging stall. Today I was charging and even though I only charged to 53%, I moved because I saw someone arrive and there were no empty stalls they could use and I could make do with that level until another time—and I've done that many times.
There are actually times when people don't deserve the idle charge they get according to the policies that are public. I hope I have sufficiently indicated that. I've posted this because not everyone knows that a supercharger can stop before your limit even after you've reset it past an 80% limit reset and the notifications can arrive late. Also that other errors can happen like if you stop and start the charging, the supercharger can in error charge you idling fees while you are charging. Others might agree that it would be good to know exactly when you will be getting idle fees so you can plan a little bit better. Others might want to know that fees that are in error can be waived by calling Tesla and that you might need to be persistent if you really believe you should not have gotten an idle fee. Also, perhaps this is my main point, is maybe there is a way to minimize the frustration these things can cause without necessarily increasing parking in a stall when you are not charging.
There are actually times when people don't deserve the idle charge they get according to the policies that are public. I hope I have sufficiently indicated that. I've posted this because not everyone knows that a supercharger can stop before your limit even after you've reset it past an 80% limit reset and the notifications can arrive late. Also that other errors can happen like if you stop and start the charging, the supercharger can in error charge you idling fees while you are charging. Others might agree that it would be good to know exactly when you will be getting idle fees so you can plan a little bit better. Others might want to know that fees that are in error can be waived by calling Tesla and that you might need to be persistent if you really believe you should not have gotten an idle fee. Also, perhaps this is my main point, is maybe there is a way to minimize the frustration these things can cause without necessarily increasing parking in a stall when you are not charging.
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houstonian
ಠ_ಠ
I can only speak for myself but would agree with this.
I think where we may disagree (?) is the proposed solution, or at least the next logical step in finding a solution.
As I understand it Tesla did ultimately refund you for their error. Good on Tesla, but this does not excuse the error being made in the first place nor does it mean Tesla can’t do better both in terms of improving their existing backend systems to not make mistakes in the first place or better streamlining the reporting/resolution when future mistakes are made.
Thus I’d argue the next step is not to make a change in policy to the existing system but rather make the existing system more robust/less error prone to following the current policies as we as beefing up their support to better handle errors when they arise.
So, you've basically visited literally every single supercharger in the US and have only charged at each of them once?
I'll take $500 for "Things That Never Happened".
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