6-20 to 14-30 worth it?

[1plavs]

Is it worth upgrading a 6-20 Nema to a 14-30?

MY LR
6-20 installed by master electrician last May inside our attached garage.

—I frequently use free PlugShare chargers nearby.
—Average amount of miles per month. 600-800.
—A 14-50 Nema would require thousands of dollars of updates in the panel.
—Living in WI sometimes I would like a faster charge especially when it’s really cold out.

In May I paid $600 for the 6-20 to be installed. Panel is 30 ft from garage located in our basement.

Option 1 - For $775 they would do this-
Install 30a 240v 14-30R outlet in Garage for EV Charger:
1-2 pole breaker installed in the sub- breaker panel
1-30a 240v circuit from panel thru unfinished basement to Garage wall
1-Install 14-30R 240v outlet on Garage wall fished in as wall construction allows

Option 2- For $565
And then I spoke to him again about what other options I had. Then he told me “I will be using the existing wire to pull in the new wire to the outlet in the garage. I will be getting back the 20a 2 pole breaker and putting in a 30a breaker. This should save time not having to fish in the new wire.

The existing wire size is #12. If you would allow us to pull out the existing 20a wire and use it to pull in the new 30a #10 wire from the basement, replace the existing outlet with a 14-30R outlet.”

 

[MY-user]

6-20 240V gives you approximately 5kwh/h. Or about 15mph of charging. Assuming you can charge from 10pm to 6am it gives you 120 miles of charge every day. If your 800 miles per month are somewhat evenly distributed then you drive unde 30 miles per day. 6-20 is much faster than you need.

 

[1plavs]

6-20 240V gives you approximately 5kwh/h. Or about 15mph of charging. Assuming you can charge from 10pm to 6am it gives you 120 miles of charge every day. If your 800 miles per month are somewhat evenly distributed then you drive unde 30 miles per day. 6-20 is much faster than you need.

I have to factor in the constant range loss from November through March which is at least 30% due to cold weather and many times ….subzero temps. These are the months I’m most concerned about. Not the yearly average.

 

[Big Earl]

Is your capacity limited such that you are unable to install a NEMA 14-50? If you have room, I’d just go for that, call it a day and enjoy double the charge rate.

 

[jjrandorin]

Is your capacity limited such that you are unable to install a NEMA 14-50? If you have room, I’d just go for that, call it a day and enjoy double the charge rate.

The OP said in the opening post:

—A 14-50 Nema would require thousands of dollars of updates in the panel.

So, they have already determined that a 14-50 isnt feasible.

OP, on a model Y, teslas wall connector charging speed chart (which should also be applicable for the mobile connector, at least up to the speeds the mobile connector supports) says that a 20amp circuit will be approximately 14 MPH on a model Y and a 30 amp circuit will be 21 MPH. Only you know if 7 miles per hour (or 56 miles over an 8 hour period) is worth you spending 500-800, though.

 

[Big Earl]

Oops. Sorry for missing that.

 

[1plavs]

The OP said in the opening post:



So, they have already determined that a 14-50 isnt feasible.

OP, on a model Y, teslas wall connector charging speed chart (which should also be applicable for the mobile connector, at least up to the speeds the mobile connector supports) says that a 20amp circuit will be approximately 14 MPH on a model Y and a 30 amp circuit will be 21 MPH. Only you know if 7 miles per hour (or 56 miles over an 8 hour period) is worth you spending 500-800, though.

View attachment 754380

I took this scenario in consideration.

EV Charging Calculator USA: Time, Rate, Cost

Estimate charging time, rate, and cost for any electric car in the USA. AC & DC charging. Green Cars Compare Charging Calculator. Free to use

evcompare.io

From 20-80% this site shows that a 6-20 should charge 17.5mph and a 14-30 should charge 26.2mph?

 

[jjrandorin]

I took this scenario in consideration.

EV Charging Calculator USA: Time, Rate, Cost

Estimate charging time, rate, and cost for any electric car in the USA. AC & DC charging. Green Cars Compare Charging Calculator. Free to use

evcompare.io

From 20-80% this site shows that a 6-20 should charge 17.5mph and a 14-30 should charge 26.2mph?

So, does your car currently charge at "17.5 MPH"? Since you already have one you should know if it charges at 17.5 or 14 MPH (and whether to trust "evcompare" or tesla.

 

[1plavs]

So, does your car currently charge at "17.5 MPH"? Since you already have one you should know if it charges at 17.5 or 14 MPH (and whether to trust "evcompare" or tesla.

I would have to take a look. I can tell you it’s definitely not 14mph.

For example the other day it charged from 70-80% and it took 2 hours. How many miles are between 70-80%?

 

[jjrandorin]

I would have to take a look. I can tell you it’s definitely not 7mph.

For example the other day it charged from 70-80% and it took 2 hours. How many miles are between 70-80%?

The tesla chart does not say "7 miles" it says 14 like I mentioned previously (for your 20amp 240v circuit), and you dont need to guess. All you need to do is start charging, and it will quickly ramp up to its maximum charge rate, and say exactly what that is in both the car and the app, expressed in miles.

 

[1plavs]

The tesla chart does not say "7 miles" it says 14 like I mentioned previously, and you dont need to guess. All you need to do is start charging, and it will quickly ramp up to its maximum charge rate, and say exactly what that is in both the car and the app, expressed in miles.

I corrected the error. What your really trying to say is that is 8 hours of charging and let’s say between 60-70 miles more worth it to me? It depends it might be. Today for example it has been below zero so every hour of charging and more miles count. In the summer….not so much.

 

[Benito1283]

It sounds like this would be an upgrade of convenience, so it’s really yup to you if it’s worth the extra money.

Given you drive ~25 miles daily on average, that would be less than two hours charging on your current 6-20 setup. That seems like no biggie, unless there’s something I’m missing. You’re already getting very efficient charging with 240V. I don’t think you’ll have any issue in the cold weather.

After a couple months of 120V charging, I recently considered a new 6-20 vs 14-30 and went with the 14-30 because it was only $100 more. I drive the same amount as you. But if I already had a 6-20, there’s no way I could justify the cost to upgrade to a 14-30.

Maybe see how the cold weather months work for you, and consider upgrading if it’s really not working for you. But it certainly doesn’t sound like an urgent matter.

 

[1plavs]

It sounds like this would be an upgrade of convenience, so it’s really yup to you if it’s worth the extra money.

Given you drive ~25 miles daily on average, that would be less than two hours charging on your current 6-20 setup. That seems like no biggie, unless there’s something I’m missing. You’re already getting very efficient charging with 240V. I don’t think you’ll have any issue in the cold weather.

I recently considered a new 6-20 vs 14-30 and went with the 14-30 because it was only $100 more. I drive the same amount as you. But if I already had a 6-20, there’s no way I could justify the cost to upgrade to a 14-30.

Maybe see how the cold weather months work for you, and consider upgrading if it’s really not working for you. But it certainly doesn’t sound like an urgent matter.

The biggest reason I’m thinking about it is during cold months. Preconditioning takes some % away and with 30% range loss or more driving In sub zero temps gaining 7 charging miles an hour or 56 miles equals about 18% more range. I just figure rhat 18% is what I lose preconditioning and what I lose with range loss.

 

[Benito1283]

The biggest reason I’m thinking about it is during cold months. Preconditioning takes some % away and with 30% range loss or more driving In sub zero temps gaining 7 charging miles an hour or 56 miles equals about 18% more range. I just figure rhat 18% is what I lose preconditioning and what I lose with range loss.

It would just be a matter of charging a little longer to make up the range loss. You’d have to charge like 3 hours on 6-20 instead of 2 hours on 14-30. Up to you if the cost is worth the faster charge. Either way, you’ll be paying for the same amount of electricity in the end.

 

[jcanoe]

6-20 can add 12 to 14 miles of range added to the battery per hour when charging. In winter you can use almost as much energy preconditioning and warming the battery and passenger cabin as you do driving. The Wh/mi Trips display does not show the energy used while preconditioning, only driving. You could effectively be adding just 6 to 8 miles of range per hour when charging, the rest is for the energy used to warm the vehicle.

 

[LoudMusic]

MY LR
6-20 installed by master electrician last May inside our attached garage.

—I frequently use free PlugShare chargers nearby.
—Average amount of miles per month. 600-800.

What is causing you to use free chargers away from the house?

Your existing home charging option would seem to give you more than 100 miles of range overnight, even in cold weather, and it looks like you're driving nowhere near that much on a regular basis. In fact, for that small amount of driving I would probably be happy with a NEMA 5-15 at home.

Incidentally, has anyone else done the math to realize you can drive over 30,000 miles per year charging strictly from a 15A outlet? Bonkers, eh?

 

[Benito1283]

6-20 can add 12 to 14 miles of range added to the battery per hour when charging. In winter you can use almost as much energy preconditioning and warming the battery and passenger cabin as you do driving. The Wh/mi Trips display does not show the energy used while preconditioning, only driving. You could effectively be adding just 6 to 8 miles of range per hour when charging, the rest is for the energy used to warm the vehicle.

This battery warming might reduce the range added somewhat for the first 30 minutes or so, then should ramp up to max charging rate and remain there. This is what I’ve observed in temps down to 0F on 14-30, even 5-20. Although the 14-30 is WAY more efficient (~96% for me). I think OP is worried about a scenario that has yet to present itself.

 

[UncleCreepy]

Incidentally, has anyone else done the math to realize you can drive over 30,000 miles per year charging strictly from a 15A outlet? Bonkers, eh?

That might work in warmer climates (and 120 V charging is also wasting quite some energy), but not if it gets really cold. With little over 1 kW available to warm the battery it would probably take all day long just to be able to actually charge.
Right now it's -23°C (-9 F) where I live and I wouldn't want anything less than a 240 V / 48 Amp setup. At least I'm not draining my battery while the motors draw some 7 kW to precondition the battery.

 

[MY-user]

I have to factor in the constant range loss from November through March which is at least 30% due to cold weather and many times ….subzero temps. These are the months I’m most concerned about. Not the yearly average.

Even with a 50% range loss you car will easily offer you an additional 60 miles of range every night with your current set up. I think that you just want to upgrade your charger because we all like upgrades, not because you need it.

 

[jcanoe]

In winter my Model Y uses more of the battery so I increase the charge limit by 5% to 10% above the usual charge limit. I have been plugging in to charge every other day.