2024; Tesla's Tipping Point?

[bdwalters]

I hate Apple too. Has there ever been another company with such a large R&D budget that has innovated so little?

 

[mborkow]

I hate Apple too. Has there ever been another company with such a large R&D budget that has innovated so little?

The company that pioneered the personal computer, smart phone, and tablet hasn’t innovated enough for you? In their spare time they also created the best selling watch…ever; they outsell all the Swiss companies combined. And re-invented the way software is distributed with the App Store…who in the computer space has innovated more?

 

[mborkow]

I hate I hate I hate .... and I HATE to admit it. But that is my conclusion after test driving many mainstream EVs. We visited a Tesla sales centre out of sheer frustration disappointment with VW ID4. And had to eat my shoes as my wife cheekily said after test driving the 2024 Model Y. It is not a perfect car. Far from it. But as an ecosystem, it is the least irksome to live with. <shrug>

Tesla is still not on my favourite brand due to the fanboyism culture.

I didn’t really want to buy a Tesla either…but until there is a better, safer, more economical BEV with a reliable supercharging network so I can take the car on road trips they’ll get my money.

 

[dfwatt]

If you go back to probably the first Model 3 teardown that Sandy did, I won't say that Sandy was a Tesla haters, he's too professional than that. But he was definitely a Tesla doubter. He tore down the Model 3 and he started seeing all of these things that Tesla was doing, that the other manufacturers weren't even in the same ball ground as Tesla.

He's torn down hundreds of cars and his company is a major competitor in the competitor's vehicle business, way before EVs.

He had no choice, as many of the Tesla owners, but to understand just how far forward Tesla is.

That last statement is going to bring out troll mania. Of course it's absolutely true that Sandy was a Tesla skeptic initially but has come to appreciate how advanced and how Innovative Tesla really is. In some people's minds that just makes him a Tesla shill but that's because those folks just have an ax to grind and won't listen to any reasonable technical analysis about anything.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I didn’t really want to buy a Tesla either…but until there is a better, safer, more economical BEV with a reliable supercharging network so I can take the car on road trips they’ll get my money.

better is highly subjective.

what is "more economical" ?

safety is simply no longer true. Model Y is a IIHS top safety pick+ ... but so is the Hyundai Ioniq 6, the Rivian R1T, R1S, etc.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

That last statement is going to bring out troll mania. Of course it's absolutely true that Sandy was a Tesla skeptic initially but has come to appreciate how advanced and how Innovative Tesla really is. In some people's minds that just makes him a Tesla shill but that's because those folks just have an ax to grind and won't listen to any reasonable technical analysis about anything.

his tune changed after getting exclusive access to Elon for interviews which boosted his views *massively* followed by launch event invites and fan-girling over the Cybertruck... people can be bought.

 

[bdwalters]

The company that pioneered the personal computer, smart phone, and tablet hasn’t innovated enough for you? In their spare time they also created the best selling watch…ever; they outsell all the Swiss companies combined. And re-invented the way software is distributed with the App Store…who in the computer space has innovated more?

I’m talking specifically about the last few years. I should have made that clear. I know they are working on those glasses. Maybe that will be interesting at some point. All I know is that I haven’t been excited about getting a new phone in years. I do have an iWatch, but I don’t find that it really expands functionality much beyond what I get with my phone. Maybe the medical features will eventually be interesting.

 

[mborkow]

better is highly subjective.

what is "more economical" ?

safety is simply no longer true. Model Y is a IIHS top safety pick+ ... but so is the Hyundai Ioniq 6, the Rivian R1T, R1S, etc.

Read the full crash test reports and scores; nothing crash tests better than the Model Y. By “more economical” I meant, simply, inexpensive; Model Y (at $38k) is very well priced and represents extremely high value.

 

[gt2690b]

Read the full crash test reports and scores; nothing crash tests better than the Model Y. By “more economical” I meant, simply, inexpensive; Model Y (at $38k) is very well priced and represents extremely high value.

also the most efficient (hence lower cost of ownership)

 

[texas_star_TM3]

Read the full crash test reports and scores; nothing crash tests better than the Model Y. By “more economical” I meant, simply, inexpensive; Model Y (at $38k) is very well priced and represents extremely high value.

that's only for NCAP ... IIHS never ranked cars from safest #1 and down.

 

[mborkow]

that's only for NCAP ... IIHS never ranked cars from safest #1 and down.

I’m talking about the IIHS reports. You can dig into them and see every little particular; please find me a car that tested better than Model Y? I tried…and failed.

 

[gt2690b]

I’m talking about the IIHS reports. You can dig into them and see every little particular; please find me a car that tested better than Model Y? I tried…and failed.

the Y apparently has the best braking distance as well

Tesla Model Y Performance	Dry	12	Falken Azenis FK520	255/45-19	255/45-19	33.65	2.43	2100
Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo 4	Dry	14	Goodyear Eagle F1	265/35-21	305/30-21	34.08	2.65	2440
BYD Tang	Dry	12	Continental ContiSportContact	265/40-22	265/40-22	34.70	2.46	2580
Tesla Model Y Performance	Dry	14	Pirelli P Zero	255/35-21	275/35-21	34.71	2.52	2100​
Tesla Model 3 SR+ 60 kWh	Dry	13	Falken Azenis FK520	235/45-18	235/45-18	34.77	2.48	1860
Tesla Model Y RWD	Dry	7	Michelin Pilot Sport EV	255/40-20	255/40-20	34.82	2.72	2020
Tesla Model S Plaid	Dry	10	Pirelli P Zero	255/45-19	285/40-19	35.31	2.49	2360
BMW iX xDrive40	Dry	8	Bridgestone Alenza	255/50-21	255/50-21	35.50	2.54	2540
BMW i4 eDrive40	Dry	14	Hankook S1evo3	245/45-18	255/45-18	35.60	2.67	2200
BMW i4 M50	Dry	17	Hankook S1evo3	245/40-19	255/40-19	35.90	2.91	2400
Opel Ampera-e	Dry	11	Michelin e Primacy	215/50-17	215/50-17	35.91	2.54
Kia EV6 GT	Dry	7	Michelin PS4S	255/40-21	255/40-21	36.02	2.66	2280
Mercedes EQE 43 AMG	Dry	17	Yokohama Advan Sport	265/40-20	295/35-20	36.15	2.65	2640
Hongqi E-HS9	Dry	9	Michelin PS4 SUV	265/45-21	265/45-21	36.32	2.73	2780
Tesla Model 3 LR	Dry	7	Michelin PS4	235/45-18	235/45-18	36.45	2.88	1980
Tesla Model S LR Palladium	Dry	7	Pirelli P Zero	255/45-19	285/40-19	36.67	2.86	2200
Tesla Model 3 Performance 2022	Dry	14	Pirelli P Zero	235/35-20	235/35-20	36.76	2.66	1940
VW ID3 Pro 62 kWh facelift	Dry	13	Continental EC6	215/50-19	215/50-19	36.80	2.65	1900
Maxus Mifa 9	Dry	9	Continental EC6	235/55-19	235/55-19	37.18	2.67	2680
Skoda Enyaq Coupé RS	Dry	14	Pirelli Scorpion	235/45-21	255/40-21	37.44	2.7	2340
VW ID5 GTX	Dry	14	Pirelli Scorpion	235/45-21	255/40-21	37.52	2.97	2360

 

[ewoodrick]

I hate I hate I hate .... and I HATE to admit it. But that is my conclusion after test driving many mainstream EVs. We visited a Tesla sales centre out of sheer frustration disappointment with VW ID4. And had to eat my shoes as my wife cheekily said after test driving the 2024 Model Y. It is not a perfect car. Far from it. But as an ecosystem, it is the least irksome to live with. <shrug>

Tesla is still not on my favourite brand due to the fanboyism culture.

Wait, wait, wait for it.....

Timber!!!

as you fall into Tesla fanboyism

Just joking, but am I? There are SO MANY things that you find while driving a Tesla that they've done to make your experience better.
One of the simplest is the garage door opener. Sure, other manufacturers had a button that allowed you to open and close your garage door, but Tesla took it to the next level and does it for you. So many things that I've found that I go "Duh, why wasn't this done before!"

 

[mborkow]

Wait, wait, wait for it.....

Timber!!!

as you fall into Tesla fanboyism

Just joking, but am I? There are SO MANY things that you find while driving a Tesla that they've done to make your experience better.
One of the simplest is the garage door opener. Sure, other manufacturers had a button that allowed you to open and close your garage door, but Tesla took it to the next level and does it for you. So many things that I've found that I go "Duh, why wasn't this done before!"

The current CEO is what will prevent me from becoming a fanboy; he’s one of the biggest asshats on the planet.

 

[ewoodrick]

The current CEO is what will prevent me from becoming a fanboy; he’s one of the biggest asshats on the planet.

AFAIK, there are over 100,000 other people in the company. Are you going to hold it against them? Most of the great things didn't come from Elon, just hi persistence, money, and inspiration.

And I believe that you will find most other CEOs fall into the same category, they just haven't been as successful and under the microscope.

 

[mborkow]

AFAIK, there are over 100,000 other people in the company. Are you going to hold it against them? Most of the great things didn't come from Elon, just hi persistence, money, and inspiration.

On the contrary, I feel good about buying an American made car especially one made in California (only about half hour from my house) and I encourage friends to test drive Teslas because I like the product and point out the advantage of buying American. In general, I am against fanboyism (or nearly any other “ism,” for that matter) because that tends to be a near religious fervor but Musk more or less precludes it for me.

 

[gt2690b]

On the contrary, I feel good about buying an American made car especially one made in California (only about half hour from my house) and I encourage friends to test drive Teslas because I like the product and point out the advantage of buying American. In general, I am against fanboyism (or nearly any other “ism,” for that matter) because that tends to be a near religious fervor but Musk more or less precludes it for me.

I guess i try to go easy on the guy since he appears to have been diagnosed with aspergers... i don't generally get on board for calling mental illness patients asshats

 

[mborkow]

I guess i try to go easy on the guy since he appears to have been diagnosed with aspergers... i don't generally get on board for calling mental illness patients asshats

I believe that diagnosis, like much of what he says, to be fabricated.

 

[gt2690b]

I believe that diagnosis, like much of what he says, to be fabricated.

thats just what someone with aspergers might do

 

[mborkow]

thats just what someone with aspergers might do

He has a certain awkwardness, there’s no denying that. For me, that was apparent when he pretended to smoke that joint on camera…he didn’t inhale. I don’t think he’d ever smoked a joint before and he didn’t smoke that one either. It all just seemed so fake.