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2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

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We had a soft (it didn't bounce back from it immediately) rejection of the important 350.xx level.... feel like we're on attempt #2 at cracking that barrier.

If we push though that this afternoon, shorts from yesterday got it handed to them.

Also Nasdaq has leveled off, makes for a perfect day for traders to focus on Tsla. Wish the shorts would start covering already.

Holding weeklies, monthlies and LEAPs betting on 356+ by Friday.
 
In a way, that is a good thing..haha. How much of a surprise is 10B from Solar roof and storage going to surprise people next year. Assuming 20K Solar roofs would be about billion dollars alone from something that did not exist just a year ago.

I agree with the green bolded sentence, but not the red bolded sentence - if that's your projection.

I expect the mix of $10B TE revenue in 2018 to be relatively even between 50% SolarRoof/Panels and 50% Powerpack/Powerwall.

Market participants are making the same mistake of linear/exponential projection with Solar Roof.
 
I agree with the green bolded sentence, but not the red bolded sentence - if that's your projection.

I expect the mix of $10B TE revenue in 2018 to be relatively even between 50% SolarRoof/Panels and 50% Powerpack/Powerwall.

Market participants are making the same mistake of linear/exponential projection with Solar Roof.

I am really not that hyper focused. I rely on you folks to help me with that. I am looking more at the big picture and feel like the solar roof ramp might be slower and I think the demand for storage will be accelerating after projects like SA. If Tesla can get anything accomplished in PR its even more compelling as that would be the worst possible place to try to make money at this point. If Tesla can find a way to get projects approved and funded that does not negatively impact their capital, then I think it would be a huge win. If you can help PR, you can help anyone. I could see a Kauai type deal where Tesla is charging per KWh, basically becoming the utility. They could come up with pricing that would be cheaper then what PR citizens paid before it all went to hell and show its more stable and distributed, they could have a very profitable bit of business to copy all over the world. Remember, Kauai is only 65k people and PR is 3.4M, so its a much much bigger problem but also a much bigger opportunity.
 
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If Sept 26 marks the start of the production assembly line, will 2 months be sufficient for it to be
substantially debugged? Say at the rate of 1000 cars per week and accelerating by Nov 26.

2 months of debugging should get them considerably ahead is my hunch. In my view when that
becomes apparent the stock price should go higher.

Options expiring beyond that end of November would make more sense .
 
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If Sept 26 marks the start of the production assembly line, will 2 months be sufficient for it to be
substantially debugged? Say at the rate of 1000 cars per week and accelerating by Nov 26.

2 months of debugging should get them considerably ahead is my hunch. In my view when that
becomes apparent the stock price should go higher.

Options expiring beyond that end of November would make more sense .
For what it's worth, last time with Model X took them 5-6 months to mass production, from the moment they had couple hundreds made (Dec 31 '15 -June '16). Based on that it would be Feb-March.
I hope for much quicker ramp this time, but production numbers first few months do look very similar. No need for anyone to educate me and explain that reasoning by analogy doesn't work. I'm choosing to be pessimist to not be disappointed. After all, car is simpler, but production line is of much higher capacity, i.e. more complex.

And this time, they are managing expectations much better - I like that "It will be done when it's done" attitude.
 
Thank you; this is helpful. Can you please elaborate on how you interpret this data? Is it useful for predicting the future?

Take a look at the trajectory of TSLA stock yesterday and consider that nearly 2/3rds of trading was done by shorts on that day. It is those two pieces of information that strongly suggest that shorts were primarily selling into new positions, not covering. The enthusiasm shown in the media by shorts and their allies was a reflection of their optimism and hence their likelihood to be increasing positions rather than decreasing them.

There was little in the way of price climbs to scare shorts and induce them to cover. Rather, we saw a substantial short-enhanced dip going into close. Shorts were piling on in the final hour and a half, not covering, and the stock price movement reflected this fact by Tesla going down considerably. Yesterday was a classic bear raid.

Today you see the results of the Adam Jonas target upgrade and the realization that yesterday had more to do with over exuberance by the shorts and less to do with longs.

Edit: As far as predicting the future, it is very helpful to determine if the selling was done by longs who have become worried or by shorts in a moment of over-excitement. If the selling was primarily by shorts, it is unsustainable unless accompanied by really bad news from Tesla. We seldom see the holding of shorts go over 30 million shares any more, and therefore there's limited additional short-selling unless bad news comes out to further embolden the shorts. There can be lots of manipulative churning of shares by shorts (where they cover slowly at high-volume times and dump lots of selling at critical low-volume times) but the effect is not as great as increasing the total short position. Selling by longs is quite sustainable, however, if they get worried. I suppose the implication is that selling by shorts yesterday was a flash in the pan and significant selling by longs would be considered a much more serious situation.
 
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If I remember correctly nVidia helps develop the software for those who need it.
The top layer software should be end-product specific, so I don’t think NVidia’s role at this level is anything beyond demonstrating a reference design.

However, NVidia has a very strong CUDA API (firmware/middleware) which makes their graphic products a virtual monopoly. A lot of CUDA development was/is done by CUDA developer network, just like iOS/Android developer network, over the last 15 years. Most of AI startups build their product upon this CUDA API.

@andrewt3000 is an expert on this topic and made an excellent comment in this regard:

Elon Musk:

Exactly. Tesla is absurdly overvalued if based on the past, but that's irrelevant. A stock price represents risk-adjusted future cash flows.


I have struggled with this problem on NVDA. I am a programmer and I know a little bit...

NVidia was a sleeper hit... they make graphics cards that seemed like an unimportant PC subsystem... but it's turning out to be more important than the cpu... It can be used for games, crypto-currency mining, AR, VR and machine learning. The opportunity in front of them is huge. They may be bigger than Intel down the road.

Their advantage imho is CUDA. It's a proprietary api that runs on their cards and is considered superior (faster) to competitors and open standards like openCL/GL. A lot of open source machine learning software uses cuda at the lowest levels.... So it has an ecosystem around it that is going to be hard to overcome, much like windows operating system.

However, there may be competition. Currently AMD is their main competition. Intel also recently bought Nervana to compete with them.

Google has written TensorFlow, an open source machine learning library, which runs on cuda or on their own proprietary chips called TPUs. These chips are not available for sale but you can use them in the Google cloud. Google cloud has not really taken off yet and I dont know if it will.

Also, Tesla has been hiring people with expertise in chip making... so they may also build their own chips to process their self driving/machine learning apps. Tesla is buying chps from Nvidia in 2 ways. One way is in the cars... to do the self driving (inference) and the other way is the presumably have a data center that processes the (training) data from all the cars and generates the program that is downloaded to the cars. I suspect Tesla will also need the same chip technology in their factory automation.

Elon recently said that it was close when deciding between NVidia or competitors... I assume that was a bullshit statement for negotiation purposes... Here is a thread where machine learning programmers bemoan NVidia's dominance and links to papers that indicate CUDA is 4x faster than OpenCL

Deep learning is so dependent on nVidia. Are there any alternatives even on the horizon? • r/MachineLearning
 
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