1st Electricity Bill since purchasing the tesla.

[mreynolds767]

(state electric prices last updated Dec. 27, 2019):

https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/

Not certain on CA accuracy ; but the rest looks more accurate than any other list I have seen (in terms of including both energy cost and delivery cost)
I suspect in CA there are tons of variables that don't exist in some other states.
Different towns/counties getting different rates, huge variances depending on time of day, etc...
The statewide average is probably just based on some formula that does not factor in population and/or excludes the most costly times of day.
If you live in San Francisco area you probably pay more than anywhere else in the state and if you charge during the day ; yeah you might be $.50 per but someone else in a different part of the state that charges after midnight may pay less than $.10

In MA there are zero deductions for time of day charging and the rate seems fairly consistent across the entire state.
The fact it has no time deductions makes it one of the worst states ; as HI, CA all have big variable rates depending on time of day.

 

[azred]

So what was everyone's experience when it comes to looking at your Electricity bill the first month?

I purchased my Tesla on 12/17 and just got my first electricity bill and I have to admit I'm a little shocked. No pun intended.

My previous bill I used 657 kwh and was charged $106.07. My current months bill in which i charged for only 19/33 days of the billing cycle. I used 1452 kwh and was charged $236.99. My work only has a level 1 charger so I don't use it as often as I should. I have also super charged 2-3 times and only drove the car for about 950 miles during that time frame.

Does this sound right or does something not make sense? I know I wouldn't have spent $130 in gas for 950 miles.

I haven’t done calculations in a year or so, but here in Phoenix area I calculated my cost as about $1 for 50 miles of added range for Model S75. My LR3 with a similar sized battery does a bit better since it is lighter. (Charging off peak at this time of year is about 7.4 cents per kWh, gradually increasing to 8.5 during hot season. In case someone asks that $1 only reflects the marginal increase to my bill.)

My utility allows one to examine daily usage so it is pretty simple to make rough marginal cost increase calculations. The posts in this thread using monthly bills seem to include far too many factors. I don’t charge every day so I have simply compared usage on a day I charged versus the prior day or day after and the $1/50 miles of S range was very consistent. I realize accountants probably would sneer at my simplistic approach!

 

[SigNC]

I use about 300 kWH per month and TOU off-peak rate is $0.07 per kWH. So my monthly bill is less than $20. When I compare any month to last year I cannot see much difference other than my off-peak is slightly higher.

Interesting, what utility in NC are you on that has TOU?

 

[jdcollins5]

Interesting, what utility in NC are you on that has TOU?

Duke Energy Progress. It is an old TOU that I have been on for years before buying my 3. I am not sure it is even available any more.

 

[SigNC]

Duke Energy Progress. It is an old TOU that I have been on for years before buying my 3. I am not sure it is even available any more.

*threadjack*

yeah must be grandfathered as I can't get it in the triangle.

 

[SSedan]

Don't look at your bill, that's pointless as there are far too many variables. Look at your lifetime average watt miles and then figure out your usage from there.

Anyone who takes the 30 seconds to figure this out will be pleasantly surprised. We are all saving a ton, whether we realize it or not.

Yeah because you will be blissfully ignorant of actual consumption including charging losses and battery heating.

I will agree power usage varies in a home, bit you are wantonly dismissing the fact charging power use varies too.

 

[postersw]

For anyone obsessing about electricity and energy use (as I do), I highly recommend that you sign up for TeslaFi. It will give you detailed usage and consumption figures, and you will be able to see exactly where all that electricity is going: how much you use driving, how much you use just sitting or parked, how much is lost in charging, etc. Then you take that and multiply it by your electricity cost per kWh ($0.1 in most of Western Washington), and you have your cost.

For example, at this time of year my car generally gets about 70-75% of rated range (the green battery meter), but with lots of short drives around town, that goes down to 60%, including 'vampire loss'.
Real life example: Wednesday 1/8/20; 9 drives, drove 49 real miles, used 71 miles of range (16 kWh), for an efficiency of 69%. Also lost an additional 11 miles of range (2.5 kWh) in sleep and parking (no sentry mode). so actual efficiency was 49/82 = 60%.

Total energy use: 16 kWh driving, 2 kWh parked, Total of 18 kWh, @$0.1/kwh = $1.80.
(Equivalent gas cost at 25 mpg would be about $6).

(BTW, I am not associated with TeslaFI in any way, but using it has satisfied my engineer's curiosity about where all that electricity was going, and in a very detailed and painless way (albeit at $5/month) without me having to create detailed logs, which I am not good at).

 

[Nocturnal]

Yeah because you will be blissfully ignorant of actual consumption including charging losses and battery heating.

I will agree power usage varies in a home, bit you are wantonly dismissing the fact charging power use varies too.

Add another 10% in efficiency loss if you want. You are saving a ton of money and it's weird that you can't figure that out.

I also monitor the actual outlet using my Sense. I don't have the numbers in front of me but it's nothing crazy. Looking at your bill to figure out EV consumption is 100% pointless.

 

[VV1975]

Thanks I was looking at Sense. I am just going to get a smart plug with energy monitoring instead. This will eliminate any guesswork.

Add another 10% in efficiency loss if you want. You are saving a ton of money and it's weird that you can't figure that out.

I also monitor the actual outlet using my Sense. I don't have the numbers in front of me but it's nothing crazy. Looking at your bill to figure out EV consumption is 100% pointless.

 

[Rocky_H]

You are saving a ton of money and it's weird that you can't figure that out.

...says the guy who lives in flyover country Kansas City with some of the cheapest electricity in the country and hasn't the faintest clue that places like New Jersey and the Cali metroplexes can have outrageously high electricity rates and really could have no savings at all.

Open your eyes and realize that not every place is exactly like where you live.

 

[TimothyHW3]

...says the guy who lives in flyover country Kansas City with some of the cheapest electricity in the country and hasn't the faintest clue that places like New Jersey and the Cali metroplexes can have outrageously high electricity rates and really could have no savings at all.

Open your eyes and realize that not every place is exactly like where you live.

They still can't beat the prices in Germany - a kWh in Germany costs about 36 us cents and the Supercharger charges us about 40$ cents per kWh. And if you wanna go explore some more alternatives - there are HPC chargers that charge 60$ cents.

Granted at the 60 price point driving an EV is almost as expensive as a petrol car here, but even at 36 us cents it is better than a petrol. So I can't imagine that in New Jersey you pay more than here...

And unless you run sentry full on all the time and keep your vampire drain in check, you can average about 5$ per 100 miles at around 20/25cents per kWh (which I think you are under). I don't think you can do that with a petrol car not even in the US.

We also have a lot of free chargers at supermarkets and such so that compensates it.

 

[Rocky_H]

Granted at the 60 price point driving an EV is almost as expensive as a petrol car here, but even at 36 us cents it is better than a petrol. So I can't imagine that in New Jersey you pay more than here...

Europe has more rational gasoline prices that are in line with what they really should be globally. It irritates my wife especially (economics major in college) how the gasoline in the United States is so artificially subsidized that Americans get spoiled this messed up idea that $2.XX per gallon is normal pricing. It's not. It really should be about $4 to $5 per gallon. And if it were, Americans wouldn't be such idiots in carelessly wasting it and would actually care about efficiency for a change and would consider more fuel efficient vehicles, like Europe does.

 

[SSedan]

Add another 10% in efficiency loss if you want. You are saving a ton of money and it's weird that you can't figure that out.

I also monitor the actual outlet using my Sense. I don't have the numbers in front of me but it's nothing crazy. Looking at your bill to figure out EV consumption is 100% pointless.

Average January high in Kansas City is 38F, Green Bay it is 24F, talking about having to heat an 800+lbs battery you think that might take some power?

Been mild here near Green Bay 43 yesterday 33 today still my WH/M since last charging yesterday morning is 492 in my 2014 P85, short commute 7 mile trips and 2-3mile lunch trips. Some preheating due to freezing rain yesterday and the car went from 220miles to 124 in less than 40 miles driven which takes into account vampire drain and preheating though not aggressively and it is very warm for here. I am not heavy footed, if the weather is perfect my commute can average 270wh/m. On a -20f morning if I forgot to preheat I would complete my 7mile commute with a 5 mile average of 730ish.
Weather matters a lot.

Prices of gas and electric vary wildly. Gas in Kansas City is $2.09 today San Diego is $3.25. Electricity might be a nickel overnight for one person or another wight have tiered use and car might put them over 40cents.

Making blanket statements about is all saving is willful ignorance at best.

 

[garth_angst]

(state electric prices last updated Dec. 27, 2019):

https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/

That is not a good webpage to use. I live on Long Island, where electric rates are 19.5 cents per KwH, yet upstate NY is around 12 cents, so saying New York has one rate is completely inaccurate. It would be better if it had EVERY rate in the country.

I think we should start a thread on people's rates, along with possible metered rates.

I don't know anyone in their right mind who would use PSE&G Long Island's time of use rate. I can't see how anyone would save money. Flat rate is 19.5 cents per KwH. If I went with their time of use rates, it would be 15 cents for 7pm-2pm and a WHOPPING 47 cents between 2pm-7pm in summer. In winter is it the same 15 cents of off-peak and 23 cents for peak.

I can easily set my car for off peak charging, along with dryer but we eat dinner before 7pm, so the oven, toaster over and microwave would be almost triple the rate.

If only they can give me a comparison of what my bill is and what it would look like with the time of use rates. I don't want to have to keep track myself. I'm lazy.

 

[ElectricIAC]

We went with a flat rate plan as I have a long commute most days and trying to charge within a narrow window just isn’t going to fly when you’re pulling 50-55kw 4-5 days a week at different times of day and more when both Tesla’s need charged.

 

[eevee-fan]

I looked at my online account and see that I drew 6.6 KWh from the grid and gained 5.4 KWh in the battery, so looks like 82% efficiency at 120V 12A charging. Will try 240V 12A tonight and see what efficiency I get...

 

[ElectricIAC]

Yeah. 110/120 charging is painfully slow and to boot inefficient.

 

[Kevy Baby]

My power costs 0.13 cents per kwh.

That's an amazing rate: about 1/8 of 1 cent per kWh?!?

I would have expected a rate of around 13₵ or $0.13

 

[ElectricIAC]

Europe has more rational gasoline prices that are in line with what they really should be globally. It irritates my wife especially (economics major in college) how the gasoline in the United States is so artificially subsidized that Americans get spoiled this messed up idea that $2.XX per gallon is normal pricing. It's not. It really should be about $4 to $5 per gallon. And if it were, Americans wouldn't be such idiots in carelessly wasting it and would actually care about efficiency for a change and would consider more fuel efficient vehicles, like Europe does.

So you’re saying we should raise gas tax to 100-150% of wholesale? Who actually wins in that situation. Where does the money go?

 

[eevee-fan]

So you’re saying we should raise gas tax to 100-150% of wholesale? Who actually wins in that situation. Where does the money go?

First step is to ZERO the subsidy, right now, we are seeing an artificially low gas price. I think Canada (also a big oil producer) price is likely the real price.