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14-50 Outdoor Install
- Thread starter rokitnerd
- Start date
Huh. They are probably wrong. Your location says New Jersey, and New Jersey has adopted the 2017 version of NEC.
Learn where the National Electrical Code® (NEC®) is enforced. | NFPA
There was a very large section (625) added for electric car charging, since it is a new and developing aspect of new electrical circuit installations, so I'm not surprised that a lot of inspectors are not familiar with it yet. And a new requirement in the 2017 version is that ANY outlet being installed for electric vehicle charging must use a GFCI breaker.
Yes, they are a pain and can cause nuisance tripping problems, but it's the requirement. And yes, the charging cables have a GFCI in them, but that can only protect downstream to the charging handle. The prongs of the plug can't be protected by that, so that's why this requirement is there for the GFCI breaker.
So much for trusting the inspector smh. I do understand the physics of it, just was under the impression that the inspector would know best. Guess we'll see what he says when he comes by. He didn't sound super familiar with EV's when I mentioned that was what the install was for. Maybe he'll do his research before he comes for inspection and not approve it.
mbp11
Member
I ee what you are talking about, here is my Nema 6-15, I need to get a support for the charger.
Try to find a way to hold the UMC charger using a bracket, a small shelf, or a bicycle water bottle holder...
The issue is the weight of the UMC after some time might pull out a little bit the plug which would not get a good contact anymore.
Thus, one pin might start to overheat and might create a meltdown of the wires inside the wall with a risk of creating a short.
The specific GCFI breaker requirement for EV charging only makes sense to me for a hard-wired installation. For a NEMA 14-50 receptacle the requirement should be completely unrelated to EV charging as you can use that receptacle for anything.
Weird that electrical code is written that is depending on the use-case of the outlet.
Well...no. If it's hard wired, the wires are all hidden and not user accessible. It wouldn't make any sense at all, because there's no chance to touch a live wire. That's why NEC doesn't require the GFCI breakers for charging equipment if it is hard wired.
But yes, it's ridiculous and stupid that the intended purpose would have anything to do with whether it's dangerous plugging something into it.
The other thing you should do is flip the 5-15 outlet receptacle 180 degrees so the Mobile Connector hangs down properly.
On the Tesla Store there is a cable organizer ($35) that includes a separate chassis holder (I would have called this a bracket or a wall mount) for the Mobile Connector.
Puma2020
Member
I like the look of the OP's handiwork. Well Done.
My wife's father was an electrician, so I'm not allowed to run any new circuits. Must get a electrician to do that. For my 14-50 outlet, I hired a certified electrician and he ran the circuit to the garage. Been working fine since June. However, the box is on the wall, not recessed. I've had the charger plugged into that since June and it works fine. I just went out the check on this after reading this thread and the top of the plug was very slightly leaning out. Not a problem yet. For now I have unplugged the charger and will plug it in when needed. Thank you for preventing issues.
Now the question is how to mount the bracket for the charger? Needs to also be about 3" from the wall. A 2x4 is a bit less than 2" thick.
could mount two 2x4 connected to the studs and then mount the charger bracket to that. Might need to have four pieces as the bracket will likely be larger than the 3.5 inches of the 2x4. Plus it'd probably look a bit kludgy.
Any suggestions?
My wife's father was an electrician, so I'm not allowed to run any new circuits. Must get a electrician to do that. For my 14-50 outlet, I hired a certified electrician and he ran the circuit to the garage. Been working fine since June. However, the box is on the wall, not recessed. I've had the charger plugged into that since June and it works fine. I just went out the check on this after reading this thread and the top of the plug was very slightly leaning out. Not a problem yet. For now I have unplugged the charger and will plug it in when needed. Thank you for preventing issues.
Now the question is how to mount the bracket for the charger? Needs to also be about 3" from the wall. A 2x4 is a bit less than 2" thick.
could mount two 2x4 connected to the studs and then mount the charger bracket to that. Might need to have four pieces as the bracket will likely be larger than the 3.5 inches of the 2x4. Plus it'd probably look a bit kludgy.
Any suggestions?
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Get the bracket first, it probably only has two mounting holes down the center. As long as the spacer is secured to the wall and the bracket is secured to the spacer the Mobile Connector will be supported.
It is not recommended to repeatedly plug and unplug the power plug from the 14-50 receptacle. This type of receptacle is not usually built for repeated use. (Think of a wall oven or electric range, you plug it into a 14-50 receptacle and it stays plugged in for many years.)
Puma2020
Member
The OP is likely to have the same issue. The problem is that while I could hang the bracket, if center mounted, slightly offset of the 14-50 outlet, the 3" gap from the wall (and bracket) to the plug and fairly stiff wire might make things difficult. I could place a small piece of 2x4 on the same stud, providing some relief to the 3" gap. Maybe two, which push it out past the 3 inches. Was wondering how the OP was going to do this.
That is a great point! I did think about this, but to be honest I am waiting to have the UMC in hand to see how much flex I have and what the best solution is. I will be sure to update this post with some pics once I have something to show.
So after your comment and further research I've come to the decision that I will be replacing the breaker with a GFCI unit. Regardless of what the inspector does or doesn't know, it is the right thing to do for safety sake and compliance with the current code in my area.
The question I have at this point is what the best breaker / breaker class is? My panel is a Square D Homeline unit and the standard 50A GFCI breaker for this panel is the HOM250GFICP. This is a class A GFCI which means it should trip when fault current is 6mA or more. Now class B is built to trip when fault current is 20mA or more. This would likely greatly reduce or completely alleviate nuisance tripping problems, but I'm not sure it would be allowed or that a Class B unit even exits for my panel.
M3BlueGeorgia
Active Member
Yes
1) Ground should be up not down
This way if debris falls into the gap, it hits the ground not something live.
2) Get the Tesla holder and keep everything off the floor.
Every home I have lived in, office I have worked in has always had the receptacle oriented with the ground pin at the bottom. I grew up in in a house that did not have grounded outlets in every room, never heard of debris falling into the gap in an non-grounded receptacle. In the house only the laundry, kitchen and garage had grounded outlets, those ground pins were oriented at the bottom.. The only thing that ever got into the gap between the outlet and the plug were my small fingers when plugging in a record player when I was 3; I learned something about electricity that day.
I have the Tesla Mobile Connector chassis holder (wall bracket) and also a 3d-printed bracket that I purchased before I realized that the Tesla Cable Organizer came with a chassis holder. These brackets will only hold the Mobile Connector in place if the power plug is allowed to hang down, i.e the ground pin must be oriented at the bottom. On the Tesla Store, under Home Charging the Cable Organizer is shown along with the Mobile Connector being supported by the chassis holder. The power plug is hanging straight down, the wall receptacle in the photo must have been oriented with the ground pin at the bottom for the plug to hang this way. It may not be up to code but sometimes common sense should prevail. If you are worried about debris falling into the gap get a weather cover for the receptacle.
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M3BlueGeorgia
Active Member
We were discussing a 5-15 receptacle. Not that it matters but I have a 240V receptacle with the ground pin oriented at 3 O'clock; my installer, a Master electrician with many years of experience, told me the code did not specify the orientation. Technically, in this orientation, water could run down the receptacle and complete a circuit between the two hot prongs of the plug however this receptacle is located inside my garage so there is almost zero chance of water raining down on the connection. I assume the risk. The inspector did not object to the orientation of the receptacle; we passed inspection.
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Socket orientation is generally up to the local building inspector or "whatever people around these parts usually do". Most areas do the ground on the bottom (how often does something fall between the plug and outlet?). Here in Maine they put the ground on top...but only in commercial installations. Who knows why. When they put the outlet horizontally, many places do it with the neutral on top (probably for your same reason in case anything falls).
I grew up in the Chicago area. All outlets in northern Illinois are horizontal, with the ground on the right and the hot on top. Also everywhere in northern Illinois requires EMT conduit for all circuits. Romex is illegal. It's a clear sop to the electricians' union.
I grew up in the Chicago area. All outlets in northern Illinois are horizontal, with the ground on the right and the hot on top. Also everywhere in northern Illinois requires EMT conduit for all circuits. Romex is illegal. It's a clear sop to the electricians' union.
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