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$13k for EV Charger @ Condo - Should I do it?
- Thread starter K-MTG
- Start date
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Compared to $9k for a 10 cents per foot carpet upgrade, $13k for a metered outlet is a steal !
Joking aside, the options pricing in general is so far outside of my zone I cannot grasp it. Are they hoping that nobody buys any options ?
Doubtful, so perhaps this is a bait and switch of a sort wherein the base price was a lure and the options bring the final price up to typical market prices ?
Joking aside, the options pricing in general is so far outside of my zone I cannot grasp it. Are they hoping that nobody buys any options ?
Doubtful, so perhaps this is a bait and switch of a sort wherein the base price was a lure and the options bring the final price up to typical market prices ?
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Nope, as in you did not know options pricing ?
Were they available when you placed the deposit ?
Ludalicious
Active Member
Exactly what I was thinking.
Sure the electrical room could be right beside the parking stall. But what if it's 5 floors down and no panels between. Not to mention approval from strata and all the other B.S. involved. We are talking about being able to drive daily. Think about that for a second. Either you wake up an hr early every day to fight for a charger or just have one every day. Not worth fighting all the peasants daily at the local well.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
One other thought, dependent on how spaces are allocated: petition with other owners to be to be treated as a block. That way the electric upgrade costs can be partially shared.
Ok, so I live a different world of housing prices, so ignoring that $13k is a big chunk of change in my area...
If there was no increase in sales price for the EV enabled feature down the road: at 4% interest, the cost of a 13k option on a 30 year mortgage is only $62 a month.
$62+ meter fee + electricity all in. That is less than internet or cell phone plans and makes life a lot easier.
Go for it.
EDIT: as @voip-ninja point out below, if you don't recover the option price at re-sale before the end of mortgage, it is an additional net cost. I think having a changing spot would be a net plus to value down the road.
If there was no increase in sales price for the EV enabled feature down the road: at 4% interest, the cost of a 13k option on a 30 year mortgage is only $62 a month.
$62+ meter fee + electricity all in. That is less than internet or cell phone plans and makes life a lot easier.
Go for it.
EDIT: as @voip-ninja point out below, if you don't recover the option price at re-sale before the end of mortgage, it is an additional net cost. I think having a changing spot would be a net plus to value down the road.
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At this point he won't even know who's moving in and what I have found is that people will stretch themselves as far as they can go comfortably or sometimes a bit more when buying their place "as is, per their contract" and that gets fed into your many-year mortgage payment so cost spread out (with interest added). To expect people in the Bay Area already paying a huge sum for housing (plus association fees on top) and living expenses, I'd be willing to bet that most of those homeowners don't have the money up front, out-of-pocket to even band together to later add electrical like suggested. We felt lucky that when it came time to replacing our 7-year wooden fencing shared between our 4 other neighbors everyone could agree and pay for it. Unfortunate for one of my neighbors on the side of me, his adjoining neighbor either didn't have the money to do so or didn't want to and refused to replace their shared fence. He told our neighbor when it fell down he would file and insurance claim and get it paid for!! Next door neighbor at that point didn't want to bother to tell him how insurance works.
And @mongo even to tech workers here with good salaries trying to have money to live off of and save any, the 13K I'm sure is still a big chuck of change to them too. Just not much we can do about developer costs like this. By the time you do the permitting, materials and labor it's just more than you first think it will cost.
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eprosenx
Active Member
So that cost is insane as others have stated. Highway robbery.
We have had several other folks in the forums with challenging installs in parking garages, but they have managed to get them done. They are expensive, but not $13k expensive.
Typically we have seen that all the meters in condos end up in the garage. So you can tap your metered feed usually before it goes upstairs to your unit.
Issues include that the service feeds are not very high ampacity, however, in a modern building modern code requires them to provision a lot of extra power to handle future needs. The code councils know EV’s are coming. I bet you that that 13k does not inclide upgrading the main service for your unit. I bet you all units have sufficient capacity for a 50a EV circuit regardless of if you pay the money upfront.
Doesn’t California have laws saying your condo can’t block you from putting in charging?
Given your location, tons of folks will be installing chargers after the fact soon as EV’s become more popular.
I would ask some very pointed technical questions in writing first and try to negotiate the cost to install it. But at $13k, I would save my money and do it myself later. Running conduit through the parking garage is not that hard.
Perhaps the one case it might be worth it is if the current plan is for your meter base to be up on your units floor and for it to by default only be like 60 amps...
Questions include:
Where will my main electrical meter be located?
What size will my units main electrical service be? 100a?
P.S. Also, the power companies are not dumb. They see EV’s coming so they will have required the condo to install many large conduits into the building to support larger feeds later as needed. So you are better off than 90% of other condo people.
We have had several other folks in the forums with challenging installs in parking garages, but they have managed to get them done. They are expensive, but not $13k expensive.
Typically we have seen that all the meters in condos end up in the garage. So you can tap your metered feed usually before it goes upstairs to your unit.
Issues include that the service feeds are not very high ampacity, however, in a modern building modern code requires them to provision a lot of extra power to handle future needs. The code councils know EV’s are coming. I bet you that that 13k does not inclide upgrading the main service for your unit. I bet you all units have sufficient capacity for a 50a EV circuit regardless of if you pay the money upfront.
Doesn’t California have laws saying your condo can’t block you from putting in charging?
Given your location, tons of folks will be installing chargers after the fact soon as EV’s become more popular.
I would ask some very pointed technical questions in writing first and try to negotiate the cost to install it. But at $13k, I would save my money and do it myself later. Running conduit through the parking garage is not that hard.
Perhaps the one case it might be worth it is if the current plan is for your meter base to be up on your units floor and for it to by default only be like 60 amps...
Questions include:
Where will my main electrical meter be located?
What size will my units main electrical service be? 100a?
P.S. Also, the power companies are not dumb. They see EV’s coming so they will have required the condo to install many large conduits into the building to support larger feeds later as needed. So you are better off than 90% of other condo people.
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
As has been pointed out, what makes this situation unique is that he has an assigned space in a five story dedicated parking structure that is part of the complex.
Mr. Rando electrician will likely not be able to just waltz in and install him a charging outlet later since they will have to get permission from the HOA or property owners (even though he "owns" the condo he doesn't own much of anything outside of the interior of his home).
Even if the third party electrician can get permission then you have to add up what the costs are going to be to put in a new dedicated meter, run conduit and possibly hundreds of feet of large gauge wire... it might end up not being much less than the $13K they are asking for.
How long are you planning to live there OP? Unless it's for 10+ years, $13,000 pays for a hell-of-a-lot of visits to superchargers or chargepoint stations. I am highly doubtful that you will recoup any substantial amount of $13,000 when selling the property... it is only valuable to a new owner who has an EV and even then they will not absorb your $13,000 cost, it might increase your value a couple of grand.
Another thing to consider is approaching the property managers and see if they would entertain the idea of bringing in a 3rd party like Chargepoint to set up community charging. You could rightfully point out that having 1/2 dozen or so dedicated charging stalls is a big sell in EV friendly California.
Another option is that you could ask them what the cost would be for the 'pre-install' package where they will run the conduits and other things for you to your spot but not do any of the wire installation or termination. If they did this you could theoretically finish the project on your own. It might be cheaper to do this one part of it on the front end since it could be more costly to do after construction is completed.
Mr. Rando electrician will likely not be able to just waltz in and install him a charging outlet later since they will have to get permission from the HOA or property owners (even though he "owns" the condo he doesn't own much of anything outside of the interior of his home).
Even if the third party electrician can get permission then you have to add up what the costs are going to be to put in a new dedicated meter, run conduit and possibly hundreds of feet of large gauge wire... it might end up not being much less than the $13K they are asking for.
How long are you planning to live there OP? Unless it's for 10+ years, $13,000 pays for a hell-of-a-lot of visits to superchargers or chargepoint stations. I am highly doubtful that you will recoup any substantial amount of $13,000 when selling the property... it is only valuable to a new owner who has an EV and even then they will not absorb your $13,000 cost, it might increase your value a couple of grand.
Another thing to consider is approaching the property managers and see if they would entertain the idea of bringing in a 3rd party like Chargepoint to set up community charging. You could rightfully point out that having 1/2 dozen or so dedicated charging stalls is a big sell in EV friendly California.
Another option is that you could ask them what the cost would be for the 'pre-install' package where they will run the conduits and other things for you to your spot but not do any of the wire installation or termination. If they did this you could theoretically finish the project on your own. It might be cheaper to do this one part of it on the front end since it could be more costly to do after construction is completed.
At the other end of the spectrum, as a retired EE, I put a 14-50 outlet next to my garage sited breaker box with a new 50 amp breaker, a 12 inch conduit sheathed # 6 wires for materials cost of $37 including a masonry drill bit for the outlet box anchoring fasteners. I charge at 32 amps and about 245 vac.
Yes, most cities in Calif bay area at least have changed code or builder requirements to require solar panels, EV charging options, etc to go into new construction. Our own city's building permit applications show dozens of new permits pulled for photovoltaic on condos and apartments going up now. Don't think it's required on housing but could be wrong. With housing costs so expensive here adding any additional mandatory cost to the home price is argued against by developers. Solar panel technology has changed a lot in the past decade and leaving it up to your developer to install panels for you, doesn't guarantee you are going to get the most efficient or best choice to meet your needs so some people don't actually want the system itself installed and prefer to do it on their own.
When we were first looking to move from a condo to a house, we wanted low-e glass windows. No one was offering it, period. In cities we were considering moving to, summer temps could get to 90s-100s and we felt it was a no-brainer and didn't want to replace our windows after-purchase. I was so incensed, I even wrote to two developers we had looked at their projects and advocated they offer this even if it was an upgrade for buyers. Stupid building homes without the choice. Told them to be the first to offer it and use it as a selling feature. Can't tell you how difficult it was for us to get LED lighting approved and installed when we remodeled our kitchen--this was when the State wanted everyone to use ugly fluorescent lighting in their required lighting formulas despite the fact that LED was even more efficient than fluorescent.
Then came solar panels. Developers said sorry but you can add after the fact. Now we have EV charging, which honestly only has to be a dedicated NEMA 14-50 to satisfy the vast majority of buyers. I personally think new construction should be required to have a dedicated NEMA 14-50 included in an appropriate place in the garage. Much cheaper for the homeowner to do during construction than after even at developer prices.
@K-MTG , will be curious what decision you go with on this. Let us know.
When we were first looking to move from a condo to a house, we wanted low-e glass windows. No one was offering it, period. In cities we were considering moving to, summer temps could get to 90s-100s and we felt it was a no-brainer and didn't want to replace our windows after-purchase. I was so incensed, I even wrote to two developers we had looked at their projects and advocated they offer this even if it was an upgrade for buyers. Stupid building homes without the choice. Told them to be the first to offer it and use it as a selling feature. Can't tell you how difficult it was for us to get LED lighting approved and installed when we remodeled our kitchen--this was when the State wanted everyone to use ugly fluorescent lighting in their required lighting formulas despite the fact that LED was even more efficient than fluorescent.
Then came solar panels. Developers said sorry but you can add after the fact. Now we have EV charging, which honestly only has to be a dedicated NEMA 14-50 to satisfy the vast majority of buyers. I personally think new construction should be required to have a dedicated NEMA 14-50 included in an appropriate place in the garage. Much cheaper for the homeowner to do during construction than after even at developer prices.
@K-MTG , will be curious what decision you go with on this. Let us know.
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Info on the options became available in November - I made the deposit in June.
They want me to pay for the options right now. Literally hand them a check for $13k now instead of closing. And it seems that construction is delayed - the outside looks the same as it was back in June.
I paid $500 for a 100 Amp wall connector installed at my house in SoCal.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Have a lawyer send them a nice letter demanding your deposit back
You, Sir, must be a saint. it is a no-brainer that you should not be entertaining spending $13,000 to have dedicated charging (and not even an 100 Amp line) -- that said.. it will be more of an inconvenience to hit the supercharger rather than wake up every morning with a full battery. but it is not going to be anywhere near a $13,000 inconvenience. your way forward in this instance is clear. use the superchargers and be done with it.
I fully agree!
It's not just that they are trying to profit from the situation. this quoted figure is the "we just don't want to do this work... but if you let us gouge you six different ways through next Tuesday, we'll do it" -rate.
I was quoted $7,000 by the the developer of my parents summer home out on Long Island years ago. This was the second or 3rd summer we lived in the house, so it was complete. but the developer was still around making adjustments and fixing warranty items so I figured why not go to him. My mistake.
I was recommended another electrician who had installed HPWC for other Tesla owners out east though the Teslamotors forum. This electrician quoted me ~$2000 if i recall and 4 hours of work not including re-painting the wall where the main electrical panel is in case they had to punch holes to run a wire etc etc.
turns out there was a PVC pipe leading out of the panel and they were able to thread the crazy thick wire right through it. no extra re-finishing work needed on my walls. the run wasn't very long either as the electrical panel was in a room just above the garage. all in all they were in and out door to door in just under 2 hours. i'd say i paid $600-$800 more than I should have for this install but was so pleased with their work, and particularly how proficient they seemed to be with working with my Clipper Creek EVSE (i was driving a Chevy Volt at the time) -- that it was well worth it!
again.. the developer in my case (as in the OPs case) just doesn't want to do the work. that's why this quote is so outrageous.
that said.. it will most certainly be easier to do now rather than later. but not for $13,000.00
I would insist you are able to get a quote form other electricians.
Yikes, I feel for you in your position. I can understand them needing to have the electrical plan for the underground garage submitted and approved early on. Assume they want the money upfront so as not to have people back out and plans need to then be changed but that's quite a hit for anyone still waiting to finance their place. Sort of like don't buy a car before applying for a mortgage and getting approved for your home first.
If the place isn't ready for move in by June - I am eligible to cancel and receive my deposit. I asked them to tell me now if it won't be ready so I can find a townhouse (or a place with my own garage).
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I think you have a fair argument that terms were not disclosed in full when you placed your deposit.
Toll Brothers priced themselves out of the area I am in. We had them price out a single family. Their standard (no options) price was high per sq ft as compared to other local comparable builders. But add in some options... I remember asking if they added an extra 0 at the end of the quote by mistake. It wasn't a mistake. We went with another builder. Toll Brothers isn't around here anymore.
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