Destination charging (Level 2 vs. Level 3 DC charging)

joer00 · Jul 6, 2014

It is sad that some people do negative posts regarding the Chademo adapter and the standard itself. YES Tesla SC is much better, however I was surprised to see how many Chademo chargers there are ! Chademo is the PERFECT destination charging ! I life in south Florida and both Orlando and Miami always were a problem. Nice to see that both areas have 5+ Chademo chargers. 120 miles per hour is GREAT compared to the crappy L2's ! We should remove 90 % of the L2's and replace by Chademo. L2 is really completely useless unless for overnight charging !

You guys will all LOVE the Chademo adapter ! So far I am also very positively surprised how nice the Nissan dealers are ! At any one I stopped so far I was warmly welcome ! Imagine if ALL Nissan dealers would commit to install a Chademo, we would have fast charging almost everywhere !

dsm363 · Jul 6, 2014

CHAdeMO Adapter

If CHAdeMO is the perfect destination charging the Supercharging is even more perfect. The issue is cost. If all hotels installed high Amp Level 2 stations then destination charging would be less of an issue. Not all drivers will be staying in hotels so a DC quick charge (doesn't have to be CHadeMO) is more useful there.

Nissan dealerships are not always located in the part of town one normally goes to during a visit to a city. Rather along dealership row with other dealerships.

I am glad they are working on the adapter. It gives people options and the market will sort out which standard makes it.

dirkhh · Jul 6, 2014

dsm363 said:
If CHAdeMO is the perfect destination charging the Supercharging is even more perfect. The issue is cost. If all hotels installed high Amp Level 2 stations then destination charging would be less of an issue.

BINGO

dsm363 said:
Not all drivers will be staying in hotels so a DC quick charge (doesn't have to be CHadeMO) is more useful there.

and BINGO again

They serve slightly different purposes and different audiences / situations. If you only stay at hotels with L2 chargers you are fine. Sadly way too few have L2 chargers. Whenever I check into a hotel (even if I didn't bring my car on a business trip) I ALWAYS ask for charging and if I have the time ask to talk to the manager to explain the advantage of adding a L2 charger or at least a few NEMA 14-50s...

dsm363 said:
Nissan dealerships are not always located in the part of town one normally goes to during a visit to a city. Rather along dealership row with other dealerships.

Interesting point. I definitely think that CHAdeMO chargers near malls / restaurants / etc (like the one that @TonyWilliams talks about) make much more sense than relying on a network of Nissan dealerships

joer00 · Jul 6, 2014

dsm363 said:
If CHAdeMO is the perfect destination charging the Supercharging is even more perfect. The issue is cost. If all hotels installed high Amp Level 2 stations then destination charging would be less of an issue. Not all drivers will be staying in hotels so a DC quick charge (doesn't have to be CHadeMO) is more useful there.

Nissan dealerships are not always located in the part of town one normally goes to during a visit to a city. Rather along dealership row with other dealerships.

I am glad they are working on the adapter. It gives people options and the market will sort out which standard makes it.

True, dealers are usually not located in interesting areas. But they all have accommodations for people waiting for their cars serviced. TV, popcorn, drinks etc. If it just takes one hour, that is ok !

However, the newest development of Tesla talking with BMW and Nissan will for sure result in Chademo dying ! The first Chademo I saw in downtown Orlando I could not believe how HUGE that adapter and the cable is and this with just 30 % of the SC power ! If the industry cannot agree on Tesla being the best charging standard (the smallest plug with the highest power), they are stupid !

dirkhh · Jul 6, 2014

joer00 said:
True, dealers are usually not located in interesting areas. But they all have accommodations for people waiting for their cars serviced. TV, popcorn, drinks etc. If it just takes one hour, that is ok !

Not sure about the Nissan dealerships you go to... the ones around here... I'd rather not sit around for an hour. I'd much rather head over to Starbucks or a restaurant or go do something slightly more productive... but that's just personal preferences, I guess.

joer00 said:
However, the newest development of Tesla talking with BMW and Nissan will for sure result in Chademo dying ! The first Chademo I saw in downtown Orlando I could not believe how HUGE that adapter and the cable is and this with just 30 % of the SC power ! If the industry cannot agree on Tesla being the best charging standard (the smallest plug with the highest power), they are stupid !

I think that's a somewhat premature announcement :-/
It is rare that the best technology wins (VHS/Beta, BlueRay/HDDVD, etc). I'd love for the vendors to agree on one plug. So far I'm not hopeful. Not at all, actually. And in some countries CHAdeMO is the standard. Look at Estonia or Japan. It will be a long time before anything else can compete there.

jerry33 · Jul 6, 2014

joer00 said:
True, dealers are usually not located in interesting areas. But they all have accommodations for people waiting for their cars serviced. TV, popcorn, drinks etc. If it just takes one hour, that is ok !

The other problem is that you never know if you are going to run into a dealer that doesn't allow charging (either of cars not purchased there or non-Nissan cars).

dirkhh · Jul 6, 2014

jerry33 said:
The other problem is that you never know if you are going to run into a dealer that doesn't allow charging (either of cars not purchased there or non-Nissan cars).

How common is that? I have seen maybe a couple of reports of people who got turned down by Nissan dealerships, but many many more reports that were quite positive. I own both a Leaf and a Model S and all the local Nissan dealerships that I have talked to and the have CHAdeMO chargers said, when asked, that I'd be welcome to charge my Model S there if it didn't interfere with their business (i.e., if they need to get a Leaf ready for a customer, they might call dips on the DC charger).

dsm363 · Jul 6, 2014

I called two dealerships in Texas who wouldn't let me use their level 2 chargers. Only for Leaf customers they said. This was pre Suoercharger.

TexasEV · Jul 6, 2014

joer00 said:
Chademo is the PERFECT destination charging ! I life in south Florida and both Orlando and Miami always were a problem. Nice to see that both areas have 5+ Chademo chargers. 120 miles per hour is GREAT compared to the crappy L2's ! We should remove 90 % of the L2's and replace by Chademo. L2 is really completely useless unless for overnight charging !

Most people spend more than an hour at whatever "destination" they're going to that needs destination charging. High amp level 2 charging stations (meaning 40A or greater) can satisfy the needed charging in the hours that the car is parked at an order of magnitude less cost. I don't know who "we" are that's going to remove the level 2s and replace them with Chademo given the cost. We need destination charging at the actual destinations, the amusement parks or beaches or whatever so the car can charge while it's parked, and that can be provided by relatively inexpensive high amp level 2 charging.

Blathering1 · Jul 6, 2014

As the OP, I am reposting the info below which was moved en masse by moderation (reason understood!), yet is pertinent to this thread.

We have a CHAdeMO charger (aka DC Fast Charger, Level 3 DC charger, supercharger, or as Brianman mentioned "Space time continuum disruptor charge") at our commercial facility that is not affiliated with Nissan or other auto mfgs/groups. Location is near the intersection of two significant highways, albeit not interstates, and the unit is listed on Plug Share, the fed site, and other listing sites. We offer free charging. Our electric cost is offset by an on premises solar system rated larger than the CHAdeMO rated demand.

In 6 months, with 14k drivers passing the facility daily, it has been used a few dozen times last I checked, all by Nissan users, and most from the same user. Economically, we could not charge enough (even with much heavier utilization) to make the unit provide net gains.

The benefit is from providing a service to the EV community, offering spare PV electrons, and benefiting from local PR.

It is worth contemplating for superchargers at hotels, malls, workplaces, etc, is that they are a very 'peaky' load. For us, peak demand comes from the 15 minute period of highest draw during a month during on-peak, shoulder peak, and off-peak times. Peak demand charges for us comprised (in pre-solar days) roughly half of the electric bill. Our supercharger has pushed our peak demand charges higher, even when we have produced more electricity then we have consumed. Having a handful of peaky superchargers may be suboptimal for hotels, esp when they may be used during on-peak time (noon to 6pm, and 6-8pm in summer here).

As the OP, my interest is in the CHAdeMo charger for Tesla, as this would open the usability of our DC Fast Charger to a larger market... present company included.

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Destination charging (Level 2 vs. Level 3 DC charging)

joer00

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dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S

dirkhh

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joer00

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dirkhh

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jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

dirkhh

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dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S

TexasEV

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Blathering1

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