EU and SAE J1772 adapter

Mario Kadastik · Nov 16, 2013

It seems in the wilder parts of EU where there are very very few chargers available they tend to be of the SAE J1772 type which are for Leaf, Volt etc. As I understand that adapter is supplied by default with the Model S in US, but not in EU. Does anyone know if it's possible to get an adapter/cable for that as well?

Talking about that: SAE J1772-2010 Electric Vehicle Chargers | Electric Car Stations

At least I hope that's the one. This is what's written for that particular charger on carstation:

Charge Station Type:
~240V Level 2: SAE J1772 (new standard, high voltage): 2

- - - Updated - - -

Also, said cable would have to be able to take the full high power i.e. 70A-80A to get a decent range. The cables I've seen are Type-I to Type-II at 1x16A which will make it almost equal to charging from a simple outlet giving just a few km/h.

Raffy.Roma · Nov 16, 2013

@Mario

For the Model S is available for EU (as option) the twin charger to charge up to 80 amps. Maybe that the cables that you are mentioning are available if you add the twin charger to the Model S order?

widodh · Nov 16, 2013

Do you mean that the charging stations have a fixed Type 1 cable and no Type 2 socket on the charging station?

I don't think there will be such an adapter for the Model S since it's illegal in the EU to have such an adapter and Type 2 is the standard here, so all Type 1 stations should be retrofitted with Type 2.

But almost all charging stations have a Type 2 socket where you plug in your own cable.

hiroshiy · Nov 16, 2013

I was wondering this (what Mario mentioned) for a few months. As EU does not allow adapters, what MS owners can do with J1772 chargers built for Leaf etc?

One more interesting thing is that for Japamese market MS will have European vehicle socket, and we have a lot of L2 chargers for Leafs as well. I hope Tesla to provide Euro-MS-to-J1772 adapter!

widodh · Nov 16, 2013

hiroshiy said:
I was wondering this (what Mario mentioned) for a few months. As EU does not allow adapters, what MS owners can do with J1772 chargers built for Leaf etc?

One more interesting thing is that for Japamese market MS will have European vehicle socket, and we have a lot of L2 chargers for Leafs as well. I hope Tesla to provide Euro-MS-to-J1772 adapter!

But do all those charging stations have a fixed cable?

hiroshiy · Nov 16, 2013

Mario may be referring to some countries in EU where type 1 to type 2 retrofit is not happening yet.

In our case in Japan we have J1772 (type 1) but no type 2. Instead we have CHAdeMO (which is DCFC). Thus in some cases we need to have an adapter. Those J1772 stations have fixed cables like he ones in the U.S.

widodh · Nov 16, 2013

hiroshiy said:
Mario may be referring to some countries in EU where type 1 to type 2 retrofit is not happening yet.

In our case in Japan we have J1772 (type 1) but no type 2. Instead we have CHAdeMO (which is DCFC). Thus in some cases we need to have an adapter. Those J1772 stations have fixed cables like he ones in the U.S.

Yes, in that case I hope that Tesla brings out such an adapter.

In the EU such adapters on the vehicle side are forbidden, so we won't get them here. But Type 2 is the standard here.

Mario Kadastik · Nov 17, 2013

widodh said:
Yes, in that case I hope that Tesla brings out such an adapter.

In the EU such adapters on the vehicle side are forbidden, so we won't get them here. But Type 2 is the standard here.

Well Estonia and Latvia are also in EU and wouldn't UMC qualify as such an adaptor anyway? In any case I know that Latvia is starting a bigger EV charging infrastructure buildout in Spring 2014 so I'm hoping that by end of next year it'll be far more ready to accept Model S as a charging customer. Right now I found only either standard wall sockets (240V, 13A) or one single Type-II 22kW charger in Latvia. I did find in Lithuania a few chargers, but those were Leaf chargers, pure Type-I J1772 connector. I have no clue when Lithuania will bump up their EV program and would be satisfied even with just CHAdeMO. Even would prefer CHAdeMO over Type-II as I plan to order the CHAdeMO adaptor and benefit form 50kW charging until supercharging comes this way (not before 2015 if I had to guess, maybe even later). In any case, it's going to be hard moving with my Model S outside of Estonia towards the south for a year at least. I can at best do a Tallinn-Riga-Tallinn trip where I can make it back to the Estonian border and start charging, but doing a trip to Lithuania requires a stop somewhere where I can slow charge for a long time and that sucks. I sure hope Latvia gets the infra up fast and provides decent amount of CHAdeMO chargers in various locations so that I can charge there just before entering further south.

widodh · Nov 17, 2013

Those Type 1/J1772 chargers are mainly installed because of lack of knowledge with the people who order them. The best is to try to educate people that they install Type 2 3x16A or 3x32A charging stations.

If you see a Type 1 charging station, talk to the people who are responsible and educate them about 3-phase and Type 2.

dpeilow · Nov 17, 2013

Is it illegal to have an adapter in the EU or just contrary to the IEC standard?

Mario Kadastik · Nov 17, 2013

widodh said:
Those Type 1/J1772 chargers are mainly installed because of lack of knowledge with the people who order them. The best is to try to educate people that they install Type 2 3x16A or 3x32A charging stations.

If you see a Type 1 charging station, talk to the people who are responsible and educate them about 3-phase and Type 2.

Easier said than done. There are none in Estonia, here all the chargers are Type-II 22kW + CHAdeMO and there are a lot of them. But while traveling one doesn't always know what the exact connectors are that one comes to and in countries with not too many EV's yet it's a problem. It is a real chicken and egg problem and Tesla will probably have to kickstart that too. I hope Estonian good EV infrastructure will spark enough sales for Model S in the region that we'll "pay for" some superchargers in Via Baltica all the way from Tallinn to Germany. It's basically one route that travels the Baltic sea side from the east and anyone who travels to Tallinn by ferry (from Sweden/Finland) and wants to go to central EU will travel that road. Until then I have to find as many adapters as possible and probably start to amend some charging sites because right now most are blank for whole eastern europe...

Mark Petersen · Nov 18, 2013

also practical all the Type 1 / J1772 charging station in EU is only 16A
providing almost the same amount as a wall socket 3kW

stopcrazypp · Nov 18, 2013

Mario Kadastik said:
wouldn't UMC qualify as such an adaptor anyway?

UMC does not qualify as it's not a vehicle side adapter (aka cable to vehicle inlet adapter). The UMC is simply a portable EVSE and has adapters on the outlet side (which is allowed). Similarly, cables that adapt a Type 2 outlet (as present in some stations) to a J1772 vehicle inlet is also allowed. However, if there's a fixed cable you can't have adapters (which is why Tesla went with a Type 2 socket for the European Model S in the first place).

Mark Petersen · Nov 18, 2013

but if that is true then the UMC is not legal at the wall socket, uses an adapter to connect to the different power outlets (shoku / CEE 230V / CEE 400V)
and that would also mean the the CHAdeMO adapter will not be available in EU
also there already exist several CEE adapters like CEE adapter - All industrial manufacturers

stopcrazypp · Nov 18, 2013

Mark Petersen said:
but if that is true then the UMC is not legal at the wall socket

UMC is legal under the same definition, see my post. Only adapters for vehicle inlet is banned (specifically ones that adapt a permanently attached cable). Adapters at wall socket is allowed.

widodh · Nov 19, 2013

Mario Kadastik said:
Easier said than done. There are none in Estonia, here all the chargers are Type-II 22kW + CHAdeMO and there are a lot of them. But while traveling one doesn't always know what the exact connectors are that one comes to and in countries with not too many EV's yet it's a problem. It is a real chicken and egg problem and Tesla will probably have to kickstart that too. I hope Estonian good EV infrastructure will spark enough sales for Model S in the region that we'll "pay for" some superchargers in Via Baltica all the way from Tallinn to Germany. It's basically one route that travels the Baltic sea side from the east and anyone who travels to Tallinn by ferry (from Sweden/Finland) and wants to go to central EU will travel that road. Until then I have to find as many adapters as possible and probably start to amend some charging sites because right now most are blank for whole eastern europe...

I fully agree with you, but we should all do our best to educate people.

Type 2 is THE standard here which they all should follow. Some will not get the message, but we should not give up.

Otherwise it's going to be a nightmare of Type 1 and Type 2 charging stations which will be bad for all of us in the long run.

Bipo · Nov 21, 2013

So EU Model S won't work with Combo2?

widodh · Nov 21, 2013

Bipo said:
So EU Model S won't work with Combo2?

Nope, it won't unless Tesla comes with an adapter... Just like CHAdeMO.

Bipo · Nov 25, 2013

widodh said:
Nope, it won't unless Tesla comes with an adapter... Just like CHAdeMO.

What I mean is if adapters are forbidden in Europe... How will we able to recharge a Model S using a Combo or CHAdeMO plug?? We Europeans will be limited to Type2 (22kW) apart of SC??

Mario Kadastik · Nov 25, 2013

Bipo said:
What I mean is if adapters are forbidden in Europe... How will we able to recharge a Model S using a Combo or CHAdeMO plug?? We Europeans will be limited to Type2 (22kW) apart of SC??

Well I was just put on the waiting list for CHAdeMO adapter for EU customers. So the adapter is coming.

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