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Thread: ICE cars are dangerous.

  1. #111
    Member green1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EchoDelta View Post
    I suggest it is a trolling concept because it's blatantly illogical and sensationalist.
    pot, kettle. Logic is to design for safety, and that means pipelines. Having people trying to stop all oil by blocking pipelines is illogical. Oil will flow.

    If we want to avoid accidents like this we have to make those causing it accountable for not making investments in safety measures.
    But what if what we're really doing is actively blocking all safety measures attempted? Such as shipping things by a safer method?

    What we shouldn't do to prevent accidents by a company who hasn't invested in safety is forego others' individual rights to allow for more profitable alternatives.
    Nobody has the "individual right" to block a pipeline going in somewhere that doesn't affect them (ie, not on their land) As for profitable, rail shipment is the least profitable alternative, no company WANTS to ship by rail, they do it because the cheaper AND SAFER method is barred to them.

    I won't even respond to your "example" because it is so far out of touch with anything discussed here as to be irrelevant.

    I'm not saying stop the flow oil. I'm saying stop externalizing it's costs and risks and just run it like a business.
    Actually you have said to stop it, implicitly by saying that they should stop shipping it by rail, but ALSO saying they shouldnt' ship it by pipelines, magic fairy dust isn't a viable shipping option.

    And let's use logic in conversation, it's way more fun.
    I've been doing that from the start. I'm waiting for a return in kind.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by green1 View Post
    pot, kettle. Logic is to design for safety, and that means pipelines. Having people trying to stop all oil by blocking pipelines is illogical. Oil will flow.


    But what if what we're really doing is actively blocking all safety measures attempted? Such as shipping things by a safer method?


    Nobody has the "individual right" to block a pipeline going in somewhere that doesn't affect them (ie, not on their land) As for profitable, rail shipment is the least profitable alternative, no company WANTS to ship by rail, they do it because the cheaper AND SAFER method is barred to them.

    I won't even respond to your "example" because it is so far out of touch with anything discussed here as to be irrelevant.


    Actually you have said to stop it, implicitly by saying that they should stop shipping it by rail, but ALSO saying they shouldnt' ship it by pipelines, magic fairy dust isn't a viable shipping option.


    I've been doing that from the start. I'm waiting for a return in kind.
    Well if you say environmentalists are to blame for the accident you referred to then you are following the same reasoning in the thought experiments I'm putting forward. Just substitute scene and costumes to see how they affect perception. If you feel they don't match I'd welcome an analysis why.

    In the end it was a manager of company Y that gave the systemic go ahead for that train to go.
    No one else.



    I'm not arguing that pipelines aren't better. I'm positing a business can't blame others for it's decisions. A pipeline is not a safety measure of a train; it is a different design altogether that has other effects.

    Those effects may not be wanted by others who have a right to push back- Or are you also suggesting you know better who's affected by what?
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  3. #113
    Senior Member SwedishAdvocate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mookuh View Post
    Handling oil is dangerous, too. (This goes in here, right?)
    State of emergency declared in West Virginia after train derails, explodes - LA Times

    I sincerely hope noone was hurt, but the environmental damage is gonna be disastrous.
    Quote Originally Posted by TEG View Post
    That got discussed here:

    Gas stations are dangerous!

    We don't have an exact thread for all situations... Perhaps we need to merge everything into "fuel is dangerous".
    Or split into:
    ICE cars are dangerous
    Gas stations are dangerous
    Fuel trains are dangerous
    Pipelines are dangerous
    (etc.)
    There's also this one:

    Oil Companies are Dangerous!!

    The first post in that thread contains this YouTube video:


  4. #114
    Heart of the Alaska Range AudubonB's Avatar
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    Let's see if we can't discuss why one's opinion differs from that of another's without resorting to snippy-bound ad hominems. ​PLEASE!
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  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwedishAdvocate View Post
    There's also this one:

    Oil Companies are Dangerous!!

    The first post in that thread contains this YouTube video:

    Now we just need an equivalent video of oil train accidents to form a more educated opinion of which is more dangerous. However, the missing statistic is the amount of gas/oil being transported.

    Also, WHAT DID THEY DO TO MICHIGAN?!
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  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot_51 View Post
    Now we just need an equivalent video of oil train accidents to form a more educated opinion of which is more dangerous. However, the missing statistic is the amount of gas/oil being transported.

    Also, WHAT DID THEY DO TO MICHIGAN?!


    1) Yes, we do.

    2) Before viewing the video I thought you were referencing the 2010 Kalamazoo River spill when over a million gallons of tar sands oil were dumped in the river. (The leak gushed unabated for 17 hours before Enbridge took action). Now, however, I see the producer was lazy and decided to imagine several of the Great Lakes had dried up, fusing the Upper and Lower Michigan peninsulas.
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  7. #117
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