Model 3 with FSD on Road Trip

We finally decided to take the model 3 on a road trip this year instead of the wife's SUV and I was really impressed with how well the car performed on a trip from Norfolk, VA to Orlando, FL and back. I had always been a bit skeptical of taking the car on long distance journeys but after talking to some people on the forum about optimizing charging I figured I'd give it a try.

The supercharger network was great, we didn't have to wait for a charging stall at any point and were able to use 250 kW stations almost exclusively resulting in most stops being 10-20 minutes every 2 hours or so. This was perfect since I had a senior citizen and elementary age child with me. The built in NAV took us to all of our destinations accurately and the Spotify app made for easy driving and great music with no commercials. The car was relatively efficient averaging 280 kw/mi on the 18" aero wheels (no covers they are just too ugly) going 75-80mph for most of the trip and the first 500 miles in hard rain. The only time the NAV underestimated our SOC at arrival was during the heavy rain, aside from that it was within 1-2% which I thought was great.

I have grumbled about FSD a lot when used around town but I have to say it was spectacular on the interstate. I went for over an hour multiple times without having to engage on I95 in NC, SC, GA,and FL (and this was Thankgiving week traffic). I just toggled the volume scroll wheel back and forth to let the car know I was still there and let the computer do the driving for me. There were a couple of lane changes that weren't exactly the way I'd do it but nothing egregiously bad where the car cut someone off or anything. If I had maybe two phantom braking incidents where I am pretty sure the car thought the speed limit was dropping, but thankfully nobody was right behind me when it happened.

I think this may be the new road tripper as long as we don't need extra storage/ground clearance or are heading out to the sticks somewhere that charging may be an issue.

"Tesla Model 3" by Alexandre Prevot is licensed under CC BY-SA 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[804son]

That's fantastic, I've done several road trips with our Model 3 and Y, they really do make for a nice road trip vehicle.

 

[KenC]

We finally decided to take the model 3 on a road trip this year instead of the wife's SUV and I was really impressed with how well the car performed on a trip from Norfolk, VA to Orlando, FL and back. I had always been a bit skeptical of taking the car on long distance journeys but after talking to some people on the forum about optimizing charging I figured I'd give it a try.

The supercharger network was great, we didn't have to wait for a charging stall at any point and were able to use 250 kW stations almost exclusively resulting in most stops being 10-20 minutes every 2 hours or so. This was perfect since I had a senior citizen and elementary age child with me. The built in NAV took us to all of our destinations accurately and the Spotify app made for easy driving and great music with no commercials. The car was relatively efficient averaging 280 kw/mi on the 18" aero wheels (no covers they are just too ugly) going 75-80mph for most of the trip and the first 500 miles in hard rain. The only time the NAV underestimated our SOC at arrival was during the heavy rain, aside from that it was within 1-2% which I thought was great.

I have grumbled about FSD a lot when used around town but I have to say it was spectacular on the interstate. I went for over an hour multiple times without having to engage on I95 in NC, SC, GA,and FL (and this was Thankgiving week traffic). I just toggled the volume scroll wheel back and forth to let the car know I was still there and let the computer do the driving for me. There were a couple of lane changes that weren't exactly the way I'd do it but nothing egregiously bad where the car cut someone off or anything. If I had maybe two phantom braking incidents where I am pretty sure the car thought the speed limit was dropping, but thankfully nobody was right behind me when it happened.

I think this may be the new road tripper as long as we don't need extra storage/ground clearance or are heading out to the sticks somewhere that charging may be an issue.

Sounds good!

I estimate an additional 5% usage for rain. When you say, FSD, I'm assuming it wasn't the beta version. That one is quite good, on surface roads. I used to let the car do its own thing, when lane-changing, but I now do the confirmation. That way, the car changes lanes only when I want to. It suggests lane changes, but I have to confirm. Glad you had a safe trip!

 

[golfcart]

Sounds good!

I estimate an additional 5% usage for rain. When you say, FSD, I'm assuming it wasn't the beta version. That one is quite good, on surface roads. I used to let the car do its own thing, when lane-changing, but I now do the confirmation. That way, the car changes lanes only when I want to. It suggests lane changes, but I have to confirm. Glad you had a safe trip!

It is FSD beta and I have had a few near death experiences with it trying to make a left turn across traffic into my neighborhood and randomly braking going down the street that have made me wary of it. But it was great on the highway... though I guess I was technically only using enhanced auto pilot on the highway.

I think the 5% additional in the rain is on par with what I saw... it wasn't a big deal I just made sure I had enough buffer to get there safely even with the rain.

 

[EVRider-FL]

There were a couple of lane changes that weren't exactly the way I'd do it but nothing egregiously bad where the car cut someone off or anything.

My wife's 2023 Model Y and her previous 2018 Model 3 both have/had FSD Beta. One issue I noticed in both cars: when using FSD Beta on the highway, if you initiate a lane change manually (using the turn signal), the lane change is not smooth -- the car seems like it's trying to move over two lanes instead of one but corrects at the last second. If the car initiates the lane change on its own, the lane change is smooth.

My 2023 Model S and my previous 2018 S do not do this when using FSD Beta -- lane changes are always smooth (unless they abort unexpectedly). I think this might be related to the turn signal controls on the S vs. the 3/Y. On the S, to initiate a lane change when using FSD, you just press the turn signal (stalk or button) and release, and it changes lanes. On the 3/Y, you have to hold the stalk until the lane change is mostly done, otherwise it aborts.

 

[golfcart]

My wife's 2023 Model Y and her previous 2018 Model 3 both have/had FSD Beta. One issue I noticed in both cars: when using FSD Beta on the highway, if you initiate a lane change manually (using the turn signal), the lane change is not smooth -- the car seems like it's trying to move over two lanes instead of one but corrects at the last second. If the car initiates the lane change on its own, the lane change is smooth.

My 2023 Model S and my previous 2018 S do not do this when using FSD Beta -- lane changes are always smooth (unless they abort unexpectedly). I think this might be related to the turn signal controls on the S vs. the 3/Y. On the S, to initiate a lane change when using FSD, you just press the turn signal (stalk or button) and release, and it changes lanes. On the 3/Y, you have to hold the stalk until the lane change is mostly done, otherwise it aborts.

Was that recently? All lane changes that I initiated were prompt and smooth in my opinion. My comment about the FSD changing lanes was more related to getting in the left lane when cars were approaching rapidly from a distance… it seems to want to stay out of the right lane when there are only 2 lanes available.

 

[Tronguy]

The, "Abandon this lane change!" stuff where the car jerks back into the lane from whence it was coming seems to be related to cars in the lane one is going into coming up rapidly. The computer isn't just looking at the blind spot, it's looking at things moving into the blind spot. Further, FSD-b is a beta; sometimes it guesses wrong on that.

But, still: If there's nobody out there to confuse it, 11.4.4 on interstates does a good job. I've noticed that, when in the left lane, and somebody appears from the rear, it definitely moves over these days. And on 3-lane roads, tends to prefer the center lane, so it'll shift to the left, go around somebody, then shift back to the right.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Was that recently? All lane changes that I initiated were prompt and smooth in my opinion. My comment about the FSD changing lanes was more related to getting in the left lane when cars were approaching rapidly from a distance… it seems to want to stay out of the right lane when there are only 2 lanes available.

Yes, the “bad” lane changes happen now. They started happening at some point while we had the Model 3, maybe when FSD Beta went from 11.3.x to 11.4.x, but I don’t recall exactly when. Again, this only happens when I initiate the lane change, not when the car does it.

 

[Darmie]

That's great to hear. I bet the Model 3 is very efficient on road trips.

I've done many road trips and love every minute of it. I get so use to the car doing the driving that when I come into town I feel that I am really focusing on driving like I'm a new driver.

I was kicked off of the FSD Beta this last trip we took in the new 2023 MX. With the inside camera, if you don't look right at the road, you get the pay attention warning and well, I've received it one to many times. I found out that coming back home not having FSD was a more pleasant trip on the highway without all the pay attention nags. It was still using EAP and did have all the nav on autopilot functions. Taking a Tesla on road trips is truly a game changer. I'll share some of our trips.

Here are some of our older trips in the 2018 MX.
These are part of the Grand Tours for we were out seeing grand kids. 10 total.

https://www.teslafi.com/sharedRT.php?roadtrip=7J5RlYgF95o7PyJ

https://www.teslafi.com/sharedRT.php?roadtrip=iCJkkQYzreEWazh

TeslaFi.com Shared RoadTrip

Our last trip during Thanksgiving break in the 2023 MX.

TeslaFi.com Shared RoadTrip

 

[usrbin]

Basically did the same trip for Thanksgiving but from New York to South Carolina to Florida. Everything worked fine except my range anxiety . Even though the car said charged enough to continue, I always charged longer, just in case. The most eventful thing on the trip was the high speed chase that started with the pickup truck that cut me off being chased by the trooper.

 

[MikeRTX]

Somehow the terminology we use still confuses me.

Autopilot (AP) - "Plain smart cruise control" - is on all Teslas.
Then there's Enhanced Autopilot (EAP), which requires you to enable the beta to operate, and which provides some limited lane keeping steering (with your periodic intervention) in addition to regular AP.
Then there's Full Self-Driving (FSD), which is an option you pay for, and which will not only steer, but change lanes, stop at stoplights, etc., without your intervention.

When you guys say "beta", you mean for Enhanced Autopilot, right?

 

[PianoAl]

We've done a number of trips (e.g. California to Denver) with FSDb, and it has worked great.

Here's a big advantage I've found with FSDb on city streets in a strange town: Sometimes the verbal directions are ambiguous or unclear. One example is "Enter the roundabout and take the second exit." In a roundabout like this, it isn't clear what's an exit and what isn't:

Where it says "Municipal Wharf" are there two exits or one?

But with FSDb on, you don't need to interpret the directions, the car will go where it's supposed to.

 

[Tronguy]

Somehow the terminology we use still confuses me.

Autopilot (AP) - "Plain smart cruise control" - is on all Teslas.
Then there's Enhanced Autopilot (EAP), which requires you to enable the beta to operate, and which provides some limited lane keeping steering (with your periodic intervention) in addition to regular AP.
Then there's Full Self-Driving (FSD), which is an option you pay for, and which will not only steer, but change lanes, stop at stoplights, etc., without your intervention.

When you guys say "beta", you mean for Enhanced Autopilot, right?

Short answer: "Nope".

Not to doubt that the EAP package is a Beta software, by Tesla's lights. But, basically, there's three levels:

1. Standard Autopilot. This has:
   1. Lane Keep (LK), which will keep the car within the a travel lane, so long as said lane is marked. (YMMV if it's not.. and the "YMMV" is why there's a recall out.)
   2. Traffic Aware Cruise Control (TACC) which, given the weather is right, will do cruise control and, with a vehicle in front of one, slow down if said vehicle ahead of one, and that includes stopping.
   3. Doesn't really know about stop signs, stop lights, and all that jazz.
   4. If you want to change lanes, that's up to you: One hits the turn signal, then, pushing on the steering wheel, go into the lane into which one desires to go. Once one is there, one has to re-enable autopilot.
2. Enhanced Autopilot (EAP). The above, plus, with correct options set:
   1. Navigate on Autopilot. On limited access highways, it'll go from an onramp on a given limited access highway to an offramp on said highway. If the some intermediate offramp leads directly to an onramp to a different limited access highway, the car will auto-do that.
   2. Won't do local street turns and all that. It'll come to a halt at stop signs, but won't go through them without you gassing it. On stop lights, it'll stop on all of them, whether they're green or not, although, if it's green, goosing the gas pedal (on your OK) will let the car proceed. If there's a car in front of one going through a light, the car will follow the car in front.
   3. With the right options set, it'll do auto lane change. That is: A slow car in front, the car will put on a blinker, switch into a faster lane, then, once the car is passed, switch back (eventually, YMMV). It will look for cars in or moving into the blind spots, either side, and, if it detects such a one sneaking quickly up on one, will go halfway, go, "oops!", then go back. It's got eyeballs that don't blink, so nominally a heck of a lot safer.
   4. Does #3 primarily on limited access highways, but will do it on multi-lane roads with stop lights and such. One is should be careful if one does that.
   5. At the Moment, Does Not Have Summon, but that is Coming (back). With working Summon (and a bunch of us had that for a year or so) the car will autopark itself on the side of a road (parallel parking) as well as in a parking lot. A human is faster, but the car won't bang against cars in front or the rear, although if it's nasty enough, it may give up. In principle, there's also Summon where (this is the nominal use case) one is standing under an awning in a pouring rain and looking at one's car in a parking lot, the car will back out and drive through the parking lot to where one is. It's a nice party trick when it works, one is supposed to keep an eye on the car with a "stop that" by letting go of the button on the app, and people have hit curbs. But the whole Summon stuff is useful for getting one's car out of tight parking spot or out of/in to a garage if one doesn't want to actually get into the car.
3. Full Self Driving. This is the thing that people refer to as "FSD-b". All of the above and:
   1. It'll navigate city streets. Not a joke. Hit the shift lever once or twice with a destination dialed in and, with your hands on the wheel and your eyeballs looking outside, it'll navigate stop signs, stop lights, surface road left and right turns, traffic circles, and all that jazz, depositing one at one's destination. (You'll have to park.)
   2. This sucker is a Beta and, if you talk to the right people, they'll claim it's an Alpha. Anybody who says they can run this in a car while they read a book, play a movie, or play a game (and there're some idiots who do, because there's an endless supply of idiots) is trying for suicide/a Darwin Award. It is vastly improved from about two years ago or so when it was first introduced. At that early time, interventions (i.e., one takes over) were measured in several per mile (average) when active driving about town was involved; depending upon how much one wants to get other drivers mad, it can go three to 15 miles per intervention these days.. much longer on interstates, where it does EAP better.
      1. Just so we're clear: The latest versions don't run red lights, in my experience. But I've had that happen where, when stopped as #1 at a red light, with traffic going back and forth, it tries to go straight through. If a stop sign doesn't happen to have a white line on the road next to it, the car will sometimes 3/4 run the stop sign, which is just as bad as going straight through.
      2. If there's a road where there are people turning left, waiting for traffic to clear, and, as per normal, hugging the center line, and there's plenty of room on the right to go around, the car won't go around, frustrating other drivers behind one. Along those same lines, if it's a left turn one is supposed to be making, and the car has to wait until traffic clears, it'll plop itself in the middle of road, enraging cars behind one who would like to pass on the right.
      3. So, even more so than EAP, one is advised to stay alert at all times and be prepared to take over at any moment. This is a quote from Tesla: "The car will do the worst thing at the wrong time." They're not kidding.
   3. Having said all of the above: On a long trip, FSD-b and/or EAP can be pretty relaxing to drive. The minutia of keeping at the right speed, reading traffic speed signs (which it'll do), not running into other cars, and staying in lane means that one is sitting there and not exercising the brain mightily. Instead, one is looking for maniacs, instead. On local roads it does a reasonable job: It's kind of like having a semi-trained student driver at the wheel, albeit one that doesn't learn. (Until the next point release comes down the pipe, anyway.)
   4. On FSD-b, if one intervenes, the car currently asks one to record the reason that one intervened. Assuming that one can get one's adreniline rush under control, one can tell Tesla what made it happen this time.
   5. Generally, though: I've never been in a situation where one didn't have time to intervene safely. And, based upon the huge lack (despite naysayers) of people not crashing in FSD-powered cars (in fact, Tesla's got serious numbers that one is 1/5 as likely to get into an accident in an EAP/FSD car), it is safer driving around in FSD/EAP. So long as one remains alert.

So, there you have it. People who have a spare $12k or so and like new and shiny things tend to get FSD; around $6k will get you EAP, which, on non-city-streets, does pretty much as good a job. Tesla will rent you FSD for, I think, around $200 a month, which would be cool for, say, a coast-to-coast trip, and one gets a free trial with a new car.

Last note: When in FSD and, to some extent, in EAP, the car actively monitors if one's hands are on the wheel and, if not, after warning, disengages. Too many disengagements and it's No FSD/EAP For You. It also monitors eyeballs, or attempts to do so. Spend time not looking out the windshield and one will get dinged.

 

[DocHolliday]

I subscribed to FSD for a thanksgiving road trip from the L.A. area to Portland/Seattle. It worked fine on the highway, but I did have a few occasions where it wanted to jump to a faster lane in front of fast-approaching traffic, and I had to cancel the lane change with the stalk. I finally set it to Minimal Lane Changes and would manually indicate when it was a good time to pass or move back over. Near the end of the trip FSD/AP stopped working, saying 'Autopilot unavailable'. There were no error messages so when I returned I submitted a service request and received a response that the left repeater camera was blocked. I cleaned it with a dry microfiber (it didn't look at all dirty) and AP/FSD was available again. Would have been nice if it let the operator know the camera was obscured, since it was an easy 'fix'.

 

[golfcart]

Where did that picture come from in my original post? It says “Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail”

 

[SalisburySam]

1. Full Self Driving. This is the thing that people refer to as "FSD-b".

Informative recap, thanks for the overall clarity. Maybe an added para about differences between FSD and FSDb? At least one of us has FSD but also has not enrolled in the FSDb program, nor has whatever software version might make FSDb the only FSD.

 

[Tronguy]

Informative recap, thanks for the overall clarity. Maybe an added para about differences between FSD and FSDb? At least one of us has FSD but also has not enrolled in the FSDb program, nor has whatever software version might make FSDb the only FSD.

At one time, FSD was different than the FSD-b program. If memory serves, early on, one could buy FSD and this did not include City Streets. One got, I dunno, maybe the ability to stop at stop signs or something. But the car wouldn’t turn on local roads. For one’s money (initially $2k, then $4k, then $6k, now $12k) what one got was a promise that, when the better stuff was available, one would get it.

In the meantime, Tesla asked for volunteers to help it test what they had at the time. People who were interested in testing would sign up. There was this Safety Score thing that monitored one’s driving. Accelerate too fast? Getting too close to cars in front of one? Turning too quickly? There were, like five categories and, to get in, one needed to score near perfectly for, say, a month. Tesla did not want risky drivers. And, initially, once one did get in and got this pretty risky software, driving badly could get one kicked right out again.

And, even with all that, Tesla let in a couple of batches of people over time, then slowed the numbers entering the program to a real trickle.

In the June, I think, of the year following the start of all this, the flood gates were raised somewhat and I got in with a score of 85. Which was considered amazingly low at the time.

About a year after that, Tesla stopped using Safety Score at all: Anybody who wanted in, got in. So, if you’d paid for FSD, one could select the button, and into the Beta program one would go.

The tricky bit at that time was that those with that option selected wouldn’t actually get the software until the Beta software version number was bigger than the load they were on at the time. And the mainline, non Beta loads were getting more and niftier features with somewhat bigger version numbers than the FSD-b types, and the two number series would only get close to each other like twice a year. Which garnered complaints from the ones who wanted in since they had to reject updates until the version numbers of the Beta loads caught up, and complaints from Beta types since, besides the Beta, they weren’t getting all those sweet features the mainline types were getting.

This all began to change about six months ago when the mainline branch started including a slightly older, but stable FSD-b version in all versions shipped. Initially this was 11.3.9.something, currently 11.4.4. The somewhat older FSD-b people have been chugging around on 11.4.x something, where “x” is bigger than 4. The main load number for these folks is now 2023.27.something.something, while everybody else, including those who have paid for FSD and selected the option are on 2023.39.something or later. And they’ve got 11.4.4.

Finally, the Xmas update/recall update is upon us and the two big branches are apparently being merged in 2023.44.30.1, which has FSD 11.4.9, which is more advanced than the 11.4.8.1 than the Beta guys are fooling with.

Result: well, it’s still Beta software, but everybody is running the same stuff.

 

[MikeRTX]

Short answer: "Nope".

Not to doubt that the EAP package is a Beta software, by Tesla's lights. But, basically, there's three levels:

1. Standard Autopilot. This has:
   1. Lane Keep (LK), which will keep the car within the a travel lane, so long as said lane is marked. (YMMV if it's not.. and the "YMMV" is why there's a recall out.)
   2. Traffic Aware Cruise Control (TACC) which, given the weather is right, will do cruise control and, with a vehicle in front of one, slow down if said vehicle ahead of one, and that includes stopping.
   3. Doesn't really know about stop signs, stop lights, and all that jazz.
   4. If you want to change lanes, that's up to you: One hits the turn signal, then, pushing on the steering wheel, go into the lane into which one desires to go. Once one is there, one has to re-enable autopilot.
2. Enhanced Autopilot (EAP). The above, plus, with correct options set:
   1. Navigate on Autopilot. On limited access highways, it'll go from an onramp on a given limited access highway to an offramp on said highway. If the some intermediate offramp leads directly to an onramp to a different limited access highway, the car will auto-do that.
   2. Won't do local street turns and all that. It'll come to a halt at stop signs, but won't go through them without you gassing it. On stop lights, it'll stop on all of them, whether they're green or not, although, if it's green, goosing the gas pedal (on your OK) will let the car proceed. If there's a car in front of one going through a light, the car will follow the car in front.
   3. With the right options set, it'll do auto lane change. That is: A slow car in front, the car will put on a blinker, switch into a faster lane, then, once the car is passed, switch back (eventually, YMMV). It will look for cars in or moving into the blind spots, either side, and, if it detects such a one sneaking quickly up on one, will go halfway, go, "oops!", then go back. It's got eyeballs that don't blink, so nominally a heck of a lot safer.
   4. Does #3 primarily on limited access highways, but will do it on multi-lane roads with stop lights and such. One is should be careful if one does that.
   5. At the Moment, Does Not Have Summon, but that is Coming (back). With working Summon (and a bunch of us had that for a year or so) the car will autopark itself on the side of a road (parallel parking) as well as in a parking lot. A human is faster, but the car won't bang against cars in front or the rear, although if it's nasty enough, it may give up. In principle, there's also Summon where (this is the nominal use case) one is standing under an awning in a pouring rain and looking at one's car in a parking lot, the car will back out and drive through the parking lot to where one is. It's a nice party trick when it works, one is supposed to keep an eye on the car with a "stop that" by letting go of the button on the app, and people have hit curbs. But the whole Summon stuff is useful for getting one's car out of tight parking spot or out of/in to a garage if one doesn't want to actually get into the car.
3. Full Self Driving. This is the thing that people refer to as "FSD-b". All of the above and:
   1. It'll navigate city streets. Not a joke. Hit the shift lever once or twice with a destination dialed in and, with your hands on the wheel and your eyeballs looking outside, it'll navigate stop signs, stop lights, surface road left and right turns, traffic circles, and all that jazz, depositing one at one's destination. (You'll have to park.)
   2. This sucker isa Beta and, if you talk to the right people, they'll claim it's an Alpha. Anybody who says they can run this in a car while they read a book, play a movie, or play a game (and there're some idiots who do, because there's an endless supply of idiots) is trying for suicide/a Darwin Award. It is vastly improved from about two years ago or so when it was first introduced. At that early time, interventions (i.e., one takes over) were measured in several per mile (average) when active driving about town was involved; depending upon how much one wants to get other drivers mad, it can go three to 15 miles per intervention these days.. much longer on interstates, where it does EAP better.
      1. Just so we're clear: The latest versions don't run red lights, in my experience. But I've had that happen where, when stopped as #1 at a red light, with traffic going back and forth, it tries to go straight through. If a stop sign doesn't happen to have a white line on the road next to it, the car will sometimes 3/4 run the stop sign, which is just as bad as going straight through.
      2. If there's a road where there are people turning left, waiting for traffic to clear, and, as per normal, hugging the center line, and there's plenty of room on the right to go around, the car won't go around, frustrating other drivers behind one. Along those same lines, if it's a left turn one is supposed to be making, and the car has to wait until traffic clears, it'll plop itself in the middle of road, enraging cars behind one who would like to pass on the right.
      3. So, even more so than EAP, one is advised to stay alert at all times and be prepared to take over at any moment. This is a quote from Tesla: "The car will do the worst thing at the wrong time." They're not kidding.
   3. Having said all of the above: On a long trip, FSD-b and/or EAP can be pretty relaxing to drive. The minutia of keeping at the right speed, reading traffic speed signs (which it'll do), not running into other cars, and staying in lane means that one is sitting there and not exercising the brain mightily. Instead, one is looking for maniacs, instead. On local roads it does a reasonable job: It's kind of like having a semi-trained student driver at the wheel, albeit one that doesn't learn. (Until the next point release comes down the pipe, anyway.)
   4. On FSD-b, if one intervenes, the car currently asks one to record the reason that one intervened. Assuming that one can get one's adreniline rush under control, one can tell Tesla what made it happen this time.
   5. Generally, though: I've never been in a situation where one didn't have time to intervene safely. And, based upon the huge lack (despite naysayers) of people not crashing in FSD-powered cars (in fact, Tesla's got serious numbers that one is 1/5 as likely to get into an accident in an EAP/FSD car), it is safer driving around in FSD/EAP. So long as one remains alert.

So, there you have it. People who have a spare $12k or so and like new and shiny things tend to get FSD; around $6k will get you EAP, which, on non-city-streets, does pretty much as good a job. Tesla will rent you FSD for, I think, around $200 a month, which would be cool for, say, a coast-to-coast trip, and one gets a free trial with a new car.

Last note: When in FSD and, to some extent, in EAP, the car actively monitors if one's hands are on the wheel and, if not, after warning, disengages. Too many disengagements and it's No FSD/EAP For You. It also monitors eyeballs, or attempts to do so. Spend time not looking out the windshield and one will get dinged.

Thank you for the very comprehensive explanation!

But maybe I'm a dummy ... in simple terms, there's two ways of engaging Autopilot - one pull on the stalk and two pulls. One pull will get you "plain AP", while two pulls gets you some other stuff, like lane-keeping assist ... AND the two-pull requires you to accept the beta for it to work. (The two-pull engagement is Enhanced AP, right?)

Anyway, with the two-pull engagement, my car won't stop at red lights or stop signs, and I don't think it will take on or off ramps or change lanes by itself. It will steer the car to keep me in a lane, but doesn't seem to do much more. Maybe I need to do more testing, especially on the highway. But I thought I had to have the $6k FSD to get that self-driving stuff!?!?

See why I'm confused?


Oh, and BTW, I don't like the lanekeeping in EAP. It wants to cling too much to the centerline, putting me closer to oncoming traffic than I want to be. Anyone else agree?

@Tronguy

 

[T061]

Thank you for the very comprehensive explanation!

But maybe I'm a dummy ... in simple terms, there's two ways of engaging Autopilot - one pull on the stalk and two pulls. One pull will get you "plain AP", while two pulls gets you some other stuff, like lane-keeping assist ... AND the two-pull requires you to accept the beta for it to work. (The two-pull engagement is Enhanced AP, right?)

Anyway, with the two-pull engagement, my car won't stop at red lights or stop signs, and I don't think it will take on or off ramps or change lanes by itself. It will steer the car to keep me in a lane, but doesn't seem to do much more. Maybe I need to do more testing, especially on the highway. But I thought I had to have the $6k FSD to get that self-driving stuff!?!?

See why I'm confused?


Oh, and BTW, I don't like the lanekeeping in EAP. It wants to cling too much to the centerline, putting me closer to oncoming traffic than I want to be. Anyone else agree?

@Tronguy

You are confused and I would urge you to stop using Autopilot until you get a better understanding. Please do not do any "testing on the highway" until your confusion is completely dispelled.

Autopilot (engaged with two down pulls of the right stalk) is essentially Traffic Aware Cruise Control (TACC) and Lane Keeping Assist (LKAS)/ Lane Centering.

One down pull of the right stalk only activates TACC.

Autopilot comes standard. It is NOT Enhanced Autopilot (EAP). I'm assuming you don't have EAP since it's a $6k option you'd probably know you paid.

None of these stop at stop signs or red lights.

FSD, which costs $12k, stops at red lights. If you purchase FSD, you can also participate in FSD beta program which will autosteer on city streets and is supposed to stop at red lights and stop signs.

 

[PianoAl]

Oh, and BTW, I don't like the lanekeeping in EAP. It wants to cling too much to the centerline, putting me closer to oncoming traffic than I want to be. Anyone else agree?

I agree sometimes, but ...

To be happy with EAP or FSDb you must realize that it may not drive the way YOU drive. That does take getting used to.

That's also how to have a happy marriage when your spouse drives.