Model 3 with FSD on Road Trip

We finally decided to take the model 3 on a road trip this year instead of the wife's SUV and I was really impressed with how well the car performed on a trip from Norfolk, VA to Orlando, FL and back. I had always been a bit skeptical of taking the car on long distance journeys but after talking to some people on the forum about optimizing charging I figured I'd give it a try.

The supercharger network was great, we didn't have to wait for a charging stall at any point and were able to use 250 kW stations almost exclusively resulting in most stops being 10-20 minutes every 2 hours or so. This was perfect since I had a senior citizen and elementary age child with me. The built in NAV took us to all of our destinations accurately and the Spotify app made for easy driving and great music with no commercials. The car was relatively efficient averaging 280 kw/mi on the 18" aero wheels (no covers they are just too ugly) going 75-80mph for most of the trip and the first 500 miles in hard rain. The only time the NAV underestimated our SOC at arrival was during the heavy rain, aside from that it was within 1-2% which I thought was great.

I have grumbled about FSD a lot when used around town but I have to say it was spectacular on the interstate. I went for over an hour multiple times without having to engage on I95 in NC, SC, GA,and FL (and this was Thankgiving week traffic). I just toggled the volume scroll wheel back and forth to let the car know I was still there and let the computer do the driving for me. There were a couple of lane changes that weren't exactly the way I'd do it but nothing egregiously bad where the car cut someone off or anything. If I had maybe two phantom braking incidents where I am pretty sure the car thought the speed limit was dropping, but thankfully nobody was right behind me when it happened.

I think this may be the new road tripper as long as we don't need extra storage/ground clearance or are heading out to the sticks somewhere that charging may be an issue.

"Tesla Model 3" by Alexandre Prevot is licensed under CC BY-SA 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[Tronguy]

Thank you for the very comprehensive explanation!

But maybe I'm a dummy ... in simple terms, there's two ways of engaging Autopilot - one pull on the stalk and two pulls. One pull will get you "plain AP", while two pulls gets you some other stuff, like lane-keeping assist ... AND the two-pull requires you to accept the beta for it to work. (The two-pull engagement is Enhanced AP, right?)

Anyway, with the two-pull engagement, my car won't stop at red lights or stop signs, and I don't think it will take on or off ramps or change lanes by itself. It will steer the car to keep me in a lane, but doesn't seem to do much more. Maybe I need to do more testing, especially on the highway. But I thought I had to have the $6k FSD to get that self-driving stuff!?!?

See why I'm confused?


Oh, and BTW, I don't like the lanekeeping in EAP. It wants to cling too much to the centerline, putting me closer to oncoming traffic than I want to be. Anyone else agree?

@Tronguy

Sorry about the late response. Was wandering around NYC today, checking out Xmas markets, getting impressed with the tree in Rockefeller Center, and glomming at the fancy store windows.

OK. First, you need to check to find out what kind of software you're actually running.

There's two cars over here. One happens to have Enhanced Autopilot (that's the SO's); the other happens to have full-bore FSD.

If you go to your car, tap the picture of an auto in the bottom left corner, then select the Software tab, you'll see a list of data. First item: the VIN. The next two lines will say:

Autopilot Computer: Full self-driving computer​

Additional Vehicle Information​

Third item: if you have Enhanced Autopilot, there will be two lines stating

Enhanced Autopilot​

Included Package​

If you happen to have FSD, the above two lines will state, instead,

Full Self Driving Capability​

Included Package​

If you don't have EAP or FSD, then you've got Standard Autopilot, which is Item #1 on my first post to you. Unless you've paid for EAP, or you're running some trial version of FSD, that's what you've got. Let's go on that assumption.

Standard Autopilot has TACC, which means it'll try not to run into somebody directly in front of you. It also has Lane Keep, which will drive to keep you centered between the lines, solid and dashed, in your lane.

Next: Select the Autopilot tab. The SO, who's got EAP, has a window that looks like this:

Note: Under Autopilot Features, there's TACC and Autosteer.

If you have the Double Pull option set, then pulling it down once hits the first item, TACC. Pulling it down twice gets you the Autosteer in addition. And, yeah, if you want Autosteer, you have to Agree To Everything, it's a Beta. But it's not EAP unless one actually has EAP installed on the car.

Now, if you do happen to have, say, a trial (or permanent) version of FSD, you'll get three, count 'em, three buttons on the Autopilot screen:

In which case a single pull will get one both TACC and Autosteer; the second pull will get one FSD. (Unless one has the "Single Pull" option set, like I do, in which case a single thunk gets one straight into FSD.)

The fact that a two-pull on your car won't have it stopping at Red Lights and Stop Signs is another sign that you're running with Standard Autopilot. But it's the software screen with that, "Included Package" text that truly indicates what's active on your car.

As far as "close to the centerline" goes, at least with the EAP and FSD we're running around here, that doesn't particularly bother me. I spend most of my driving in FSD; with that, on a multilane highway, the car tends to nudge away from Large Trucks as one passes or is passed by one on either side, then goes back to the center line.

So, what do you actually have?

 

[MikeRTX]

You are confused and I would urge you to stop using Autopilot until you get a better understanding. Please do not do any "testing on the highway" until your confusion is completely dispelled.

Autopilot (engaged with two down pulls of the right stalk) is essentially Traffic Aware Cruise Control (TACC) and Lane Keeping Assist (LKAS)/ Lane Centering.

One down pull of the right stalk only activates TACC.

Autopilot comes standard. It is NOT Enhanced Autopilot (EAP). I'm assuming you don't have EAP since it's a $6k option you'd probably know you paid.

None of these stop at stop signs or red lights.

FSD, which costs $12k, stops at red lights. If you purchase FSD, you can also participate in FSD beta program which will autosteer on city streets and is supposed to stop at red lights and stop signs.

Lol, I'm not dangerous. I've used "Smart Cruise Control" on cars for years now, and that's the only functionality I really want (maintain a set distance from car ahead). I don't like lane keep, and in fact I'm one of those people who don't trust a computer to drive my car.

I thought "EAP" was the "two-pull" engagement on the stalk, which adds the lane keep function, so I guess it's just a matter of terminology confusion for me. I have not paid $6k for it!

I also don't have FSD. Someone's post made me think pulling twice on the stalk should make my car stop automatically at stoplights, which it does not do, and that's okay with me.

 

[MikeRTX]

Sorry about the late response. Was wandering around NYC today, checking out Xmas markets, getting impressed with the tree in Rockefeller Center, and glomming at the fancy store windows.

OK. First, you need to check to find out what kind of software you're actually running.

There's two cars over here. One happens to have Enhanced Autopilot (that's the SO's); the other happens to have full-bore FSD.

If you go to your car, tap the picture of an auto in the bottom left corner, then select the Software tab, you'll see a list of data. First item: the VIN. The next two lines will say:

Autopilot Computer: Full self-driving computer​

Additional Vehicle Information​

Third item: if you have Enhanced Autopilot, there will be two lines stating

Enhanced Autopilot​

Included Package​

If you happen to have FSD, the above two lines will state, instead,

Full Self Driving Capability​

Included Package​

If you don't have EAP or FSD, then you've got Standard Autopilot, which is Item #1 on my first post to you. Unless you've paid for EAP, or you're running some trial version of FSD, that's what you've got. Let's go on that assumption.

Standard Autopilot has TACC, which means it'll try not to run into somebody directly in front of you. It also has Lane Keep, which will drive to keep you centered between the lines, solid and dashed, in your lane.

Next: Select the Autopilot tab. The SO, who's got EAP, has a window that looks like this:

View attachment 1000228
Note: Under Autopilot Features, there's TACC and Autosteer.

If you have the Double Pull option set, then pulling it down once hits the first item, TACC. Pulling it down twice gets you the Autosteer in addition. And, yeah, if you want Autosteer, you have to Agree To Everything, it's a Beta. But it's not EAP unless one actually has EAP installed on the car.

Now, if you do happen to have, say, a trial (or permanent) version of FSD, you'll get three, count 'em, three buttons on the Autopilot screen:
View attachment 1000232
In which case a single pull will get one both TACC and Autosteer; the second pull will get one FSD. (Unless one has the "Single Pull" option set, like I do, in which case a single thunk gets one straight into FSD.)

The fact that a two-pull on your car won't have it stopping at Red Lights and Stop Signs is another sign that you're running with Standard Autopilot. But it's the software screen with that, "Included Package" text that truly indicates what's active on your car.

As far as "close to the centerline" goes, at least with the EAP and FSD we're running around here, that doesn't particularly bother me. I spend most of my driving in FSD; with that, on a multilane highway, the car tends to nudge away from Large Trucks as one passes or is passed by one on either side, then goes back to the center line.

So, what do you actually have?

I have little doubt I have only the Standard Autopilot.

BUT, when I pull the stalk twice, my car does autosteer. The first time I did it, I was prompted to enable the beta for it to work. I have it enabled now, and it DOES steer to stay in my lane and even around curves (although, as stated, I don't like it). Note that I don't have the extra line under "Autopilot Features".

I think what confused me was the talk about betas, as apparently there are 2 betas involved - this one and the FSD beta.

Bottom line is that my car does what I want with Standard AP. It was the terminology that had me confused, not the functionality.

I appreciate everyone's patience with this little trip down the rabbit hole!

 

[Tronguy]

I have little doubt I have only the Standard Autopilot.

View attachment 1000374
View attachment 1000375

BUT, when I pull the stalk twice, my car does autosteer. The first time I did it, I was prompted to enable the beta for it to work. I have it enabled now, and it DOES steer to stay in my lane and even around curves (although, as stated, I don't like it). Note that I don't have the extra line under "Autopilot Features".

I think what confused me was the talk about betas, as apparently there are 2 betas involved - this one and the FSD beta.

Bottom line is that my car does what I want with Standard AP. It was the terminology that had me confused, not the functionality.

I appreciate everyone's patience with this little trip down the rabbit hole!

Well, right: You've got Standard Autopilot.

First fun bit: Standard Autopilot, which is the base level on which all Teslas are sold, comes with both TACC and Lane Keep (Autosteer). Yep, Lane Keep is nominally a Beta, you have to acknowledge that it's a Beta, and you have to pay attention to the road when it's active. And Not Use It when conditions aren't right.

Next: Back to Basics. Over at Tesla, they have a nifty list that I previously referred to on my first post here. Here's the link: https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot.

What you got:

1. Traffic Aware Cruise Control
2. Lane Keeping (Autosteer)

What you don't got:

1. Navigate on Autopilot, where the car will take off ramps and sorta take on-ramps
2. Auto Lane Change on multi-lane highways, most used on limited access highways, after one turns on the options. (And swears to pay attention, it's also a "Beta" package.)
3. Autopark. (But that's temporarily not available to anybody. It'll come back.)
4. Summon, where you can back your car out of/in to a narrow space.
5. Smart Summon, where the car will navigate a parking lot, only to come to you. Again, not available at the moment.
6. Autosteer on City Streets, which is the FSD package.
7. Traffic and Stop Sign control, part of the FSD package, which'll stop and start properly at stop lights and stop signs.

At one time I thought that EAP would also stop at stop signs and traffic lights, but that may be faulty memory.

In the meantime: Standard Autopilot does a decent job on limited access highways, which is what it's pretty much designed for. It'll do OK, but not wonderful, on local roads, and only if you really pay attention.

I should mention that the recent blurbs about Recall! seems to be primarily about people misusing Standard Autopilot (and maybe EAP) in places that it really, really not designed for. Like people blowing through stop light and stop signs on Standard Autopilot and causing no-kidding death and destruction as a result.

Look: You're driving around a 4000-lbs vehicle with a significant amount of kinetic energy. Seriously, seriously, seriously: Read The Blame User Manual From Cover To Cover. The car may have intuitive controls, sure: But it's not like any vehicle you're driven before. Read the manual, look for the "Pay attention to THIS!!!" symbols, and don't play games.

 

[johnny_cakes]

It suggests lane changes, but I have to confirm. Glad you had a safe trip!

How do you get the car to ask you for confirmation before it does its lane change?

 

[Tronguy]

How do you get the car to ask you for confirmation before it does its lane change?

@KenC clearly has either EAP or FSD. Both of those have NAV.

EAP will suggest lane changes. If the right options are set, it'll do the lane change as well, with or without making noises and/or making the steering wheel shake.

I'm pretty sure that the current FSD package (11.4.4's what I have) does the lane changes without setting an option. The much older, non-city-streets version of FSD, or the FSD package with the City Streets disabled (which is something that one can do) will also suggest lane changes, with the option or not to actually do it.

Standard Autopilot's NAV will literally tell you (with a voice, even!) that there's a turn coming up, but it's up to you to actually take that turn. And it sure doesn't do suggestions about moving around slower traffic.

 

[MikeRTX]

Well, right: You've got Standard Autopilot.

First fun bit: Standard Autopilot, which is the base level on which all Teslas are sold, comes with both TACC and Lane Keep (Autosteer). Yep, Lane Keep is nominally a Beta, you have to acknowledge that it's a Beta, and you have to pay attention to the road when it's active. And Not Use It when conditions aren't right.

Next: Back to Basics. Over at Tesla, they have a nifty list that I previously referred to on my first post here. Here's the link: https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot.

What you got:

1. Traffic Aware Cruise Control
2. Lane Keeping (Autosteer)

What you don't got:

1. Navigate on Autopilot, where the car will take off ramps and sorta take on-ramps
2. Auto Lane Change on multi-lane highways, most used on limited access highways, after one turns on the options. (And swears to pay attention, it's also a "Beta" package.)
3. Autopark. (But that's temporarily not available to anybody. It'll come back.)
4. Summon, where you can back your car out of/in to a narrow space.
5. Smart Summon, where the car will navigate a parking lot, only to come to you. Again, not available at the moment.
6. Autosteer on City Streets, which is the FSD package.
7. Traffic and Stop Sign control, part of the FSD package, which'll stop and start properly at stop lights and stop signs.

At one time I thought that EAP would also stop at stop signs and traffic lights, but that may be faulty memory.

In the meantime: Standard Autopilot does a decent job on limited access highways, which is what it's pretty much designed for. It'll do OK, but not wonderful, on local roads, and only if you really pay attention.

I should mention that the recent blurbs about Recall! seems to be primarily about people misusing Standard Autopilot (and maybe EAP) in places that it really, really not designed for. Like people blowing through stop light and stop signs on Standard Autopilot and causing no-kidding death and destruction as a result.

Look: You're driving around a 4000-lbs vehicle with a significant amount of kinetic energy. Seriously, seriously, seriously: Read The Blame User Manual From Cover To Cover. The car may have intuitive controls, sure: But it's not like any vehicle you're driven before. Read the manual, look for the "Pay attention to THIS!!!" symbols, and don't play games.

Super. And what I thought all along. What confused me was the terminology being used (and sometimes misused ) by others.

I love tech, but I draw the line at allowing my 4000lb road missile to be operated for me by chips and resistors. Not only do I not trust it, but I actually enjoy driving it myself!

Thanks again for taking the time to lay it out in detail.

 

[Tronguy]

Super. And what I thought all along. What confused me was the terminology being used (and sometimes misused ) by others.

I love tech, but I draw the line at allowing my 4000lb road missile to be operated for me by chips and resistors. Not only do I not trust it, but I actually enjoy driving it myself!

Thanks again for taking the time to lay it out in detail.

Um. Back in the day, when I wore a sailor's hat and looked around at the briny blue, I was on an aircraft carrier as a techie.

If one so desired, one could hike over to the island, go up to a deck known as the "buzzard's roost", and watch the airplanes landing and taking off for fun. Seeing as it was peacetime, taking pictures wasn't an issue, so sometimes I would go up there and watch the show.

Interestingly, on the rear of the island, there were a couple of dish antennas (i.e., RADAR) that pointed towards the stern. As airplanes landed, one or the other of these two dishes would start spinning the central radiator (this is called, "nutating") and would track the landing aircraft.

Turns out that this system was part of a computerized auto-land-the-airplane system. The RADARs would accurately fix the position and velocity of the landing aircraft; computers on the ship and airplane, with the airplane's autopilot, would control the flight path of the landing aircraft, up to and including going to max power when the airplane did the controlled crash that the Navy laughingly calls, "landing at sea". (The Max power is if the hook on the airplane misses or bounces over one or more of the cables stretched across the deck; in such a case, the plane's got enough velocity to make it back into the air. This is called a Bolter, and I've seen plenty of those.)

The system was designed so if a pilot is wounded or something (this is the military, after all), hitting the Big Button and letting the ship/airplane land itself is better than having a semi-conscious, bleeding pilot do it. Thing is, though: I had heard from the grapevine that that button was rarely touched, even for practice. The Pilots Could Not Let Go Of The Stick.. because all it would take, supposedly, would be One Transistor Going Blooey somewhere.

That was back in the '70's, and:

• I wasn't really aware of reliability functions and multiple, on-line backup systems. I've been working Telco for 30+ years, now, and I can tell you: Realtime Backups Are A Thing, and they Blame Work. I've personally designed and built such systems. (One doesn't get down to 50 micro-minutes a year loss of transmission by accident; it gets designed in.)
• Teslas do have backup hardware, no joke. And, unlike the airplanes, when that stuff fails, one doesn't go into the drink; one simply, with one's hands on the wheel (at present) simply starts driving. And the system is very, very good at telling the driver that things are going south and making the driver take over, boops and all.

I have put my habits (and money, I guess) where my mouth is; I drive in FSD (or, in the SO's car, EAP) nearly all the time when in the proper environment. I actually find it fairly relaxing, although with FSD, and having to pay attention more, slightly less so. Especially on interstate trips. Not so much, perhaps, in and around twisty local roads with tons of stop signs and such.

And the car's systems have things that mere mortals don't have. We all kid about how our mothers have eyes in the backs of their heads; Teslas really do. And on the sides. With EAP/FSD and, to some extent, the native blind-spot functions in any Tesla, the car works hard at keeping one out of trouble when switching lanes or even driving straight down the road.

Tesla keeps statistics on accident rates. There's a fair amount of back-and-forth on this, but Tesla claims that the accident rate with all that stuff enabled is five to eight times better than the US Accident rate.

I think that that report is fairly real. I know for a fact that the car, when auto-changing lanes, really, truly, won't move over until (a) there's no car in the blind spot or too close and (b) there's no rapidly moving other car going towards the blind spot. Very rarely, it'll start moving over, go, "Oops.. that wasn't a good idea" and go back, followed by a teen or something blasting by at 1.5 to 3x the speed limit.

And we don't want to talk about how people, being people, wander back and forth in lane. Or the way that the car will duck and cover and avoid accidents in general. (See: Youtube videos of the car avoiding deer and such.. in the dark.) Under the right circumstances, the car has a faster reaction time than a human.

So, I'll raise your "fear of transistors" and counter with, "better than human technology". Any day.

 

[MikeRTX]