EVNow
Well-Known Member
But the original question stands - l2 driver assists also should be subjected to similar requirements as FSD, right ? Because they are all supervised.
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Tesla FSD V12 vs Mercedes Driver Assist Video by Whole Mars Catalog on YouTube.com
- Thread starter borland
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E90alex
Active Member
What exactly are you getting at again?
L2 requires full attention whether it’s hands on the wheel or eyes on the road or both. FSD is still L2 and this also requires full attention.
There’s no requirement for L2 to be geofenced. Ford and GM geofence BlueCruise and Super Cruise for hands free operation because that’s where they felt the system works the best with least risk.
There’s no requirement for L3 to be geofenced either, that’s a restriction Mercedes put on to limit their liability.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Right. FSD is L2. Driver assist on Mercedes’ (Lane keeping) is L2. They should both have the same kind of requirement in terms of driver monitoring.
E90alex
Active Member
EVNow
Well-Known Member
E90alex
Active Member
It’s a hands required system so it monitors steering wheel torque. Newer cars may have a capacitive steering wheel so you just need to touch the steering wheel.
But Mercedes’ system (like most L2 systems) is not designed to follow sharper curves like Autopilot does which is why you see so many “interventions” in the video as he’s trying to drive in city streets where a lot of steering angle is required.
But Mercedes’ system (like most L2 systems) is not designed to follow sharper curves like Autopilot does which is why you see so many “interventions” in the video as he’s trying to drive in city streets where a lot of steering angle is required.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
What .... it can't even do simple lane keeping ? RECALL !
Omar is FAR from a troll. And which version of FSD were you using? If anything before v. 12, you did not give it a fair trial.
From Car and Driver review of L3 Drive Pilot.
"Drive Pilot has strict parameters for its use. It's available only on mapped highways and during daylight when there is no rain or snow and the traffic is below 40 mph." The functionality is so limited I wonder why anyone would ever consider using it except in heavy rush hour traffic. Why does Mercedes even offer this when it's clearly so limited?
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45326503/mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-review/
"Drive Pilot has strict parameters for its use. It's available only on mapped highways and during daylight when there is no rain or snow and the traffic is below 40 mph." The functionality is so limited I wonder why anyone would ever consider using it except in heavy rush hour traffic. Why does Mercedes even offer this when it's clearly so limited?
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45326503/mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-review/
Omar "Tesla master pumper" Quazi and his dad should get a life.
The ODD for the the MB system is the same as basic Autopilot - limited access highways.
The feds should really force the vendors to disallow activation outside the ODD described in the owners manual.
I'd pick the MB driver assist system 10 days out of 10 on highways over Tesla's tbh.
Their L3 system will have its' speed increased by the end of the year to 80 km/h (50 mph).
The ODD for the the MB system is the same as basic Autopilot - limited access highways.
The feds should really force the vendors to disallow activation outside the ODD described in the owners manual.
I'd pick the MB driver assist system 10 days out of 10 on highways over Tesla's tbh.
Their L3 system will have its' speed increased by the end of the year to 80 km/h (50 mph).
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Oh so you don't drive at night or in the rain or over 50mph?
E90alex
Active Member
It’s lane keep assist. It assists you in staying in the lane as needed with minor steering corrections when your hand is on the wheel and already turning the wheel. But it also doesn’t work on sharper turns. It’s not meant to do all the steering for you if you take your hands off like he’s trying to show in the video.
Other companies are very conservative in programming when the system will “give up” during a turn because again, it’s lane keep assist, not autonomous steering. The more easily it gives up the more the driver learns not to over rely on it because it is NOT autonomous.
Unlike Tesla who programs autosteer (even without FSD) to follow almost all curves without giving up. It also doesn’t let the driver make any steering corrections without completely canceling the system. It gives drivers the false sense that the system is autonomous and knows better than the driver when it in fact is not and it doesn’t.
This is why people have died using autopilot and why NHTSA is cracking down. They overly trust the system and use it beyond what it was designed for and think it’s self driving (even without FSD).
No one driving a Mercedes with L2 ADAS would think it’s self driving because it gives up so easily on turns.
If the Mercedes was smart enough it would not let them engage.The guy driving the MB car should have been arrested. That car is not allowed to use autopilot on that road. Omar should have been arrested too because he is accomplice.
E90alex
Active Member
The car in question in the video is not equipped with L3 Drive Pilot. The car only has L2 ADAS and L2 is not geofenced.The guy driving the MB car should have been arrested. That car is not allowed to use autopilot on that road. Omar should have been arrested too because he is accomplice.
Yup, but the L3 Drive Pilot limitations like below 40mph, highway only, with a lead car, only daytime, with no rain is still valid.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
You can do all those word magic with Tesla "supervised" FSD too.
That is the problem with what NHTSA is trying to do.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
So first question - exactly what features was consumer reports comparing? Were they comparing lane keep assist? Drive Pilot? Auto Pilot? FSD? Then what version of the software for each?
E90alex
Active Member
Yes exactly, it also applies to FSD. FSD is still Level 2 and as such requires full attention with hands on the wheel and eyes on the road. It’s not meant for you to let go of the steering wheel and just jiggle it when it nags because Tesla does not (yet) advertise it as a hands free system.
The problem is that precisely how each feature should operate is not regulated or well defined by anyone. Just the global SAE automation levels.
“Level 2” states that the system requires full driver attention at all times.
“Level 3” does not require ANY driver attention but only when specific conditions are met, otherwise the system operates as Level 2 when outside of those conditions.
As such there is a huge difference in capability between systems in the “Level 2” category. Most automakers are on the very conservative end where it can barely make a curve. Tesla Autopilot and especially FSD is pushing the boundaries more towards Level 3. But legally they don’t want to assume any liability for accidents the car may cause, so it’s still can only be Level 2.
Yet the problem is consumers are still treating Autopilot and FSD like it’s a Level 3 system when it’s not, and that is the issue brought forth by NHTSA because Tesla has been historically too lax in requiring and properly monitoring driver attention which allows people to abuse the systems and treat it like a fully autonomous vehicle when it’s not.
Not while watching a movie instead of the road, no. At what speeds can you do that in a Tesla again? No? Oh, I forgot Elon is autonomy-challenged and that they added SUPERVISED in their latest goal-post relocation….
Do you understand that MB have a very capable L2 too that works under all conditions on the highway?
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Since you didn't answer my question I'll assume you don't drive at night or in the rain or over 50mph with a lead car otherwise you wouldn't have said you prefer Driver Pilot of FSD.
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