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Waymo
- Thread starter Daniel in SD
- Start date
I have to wonder if the odd combination of a tree and a truck driving down the road blew Wamo’s little NN mind.
Ahhhh … safety amd smoothness is the most critical. I have had a chauffeur for 20 years who had perfected the art of driving making you feel like you are in a Rolls Royce. Once you have that, you will not care for how it routes and how mnay times it changes lanes, and why it stops on a yellow light. Nothing will matter.
Max Spaghetti
Member
That was my first reaction. It may have been identifying the tree as an obstacle rather than a vehicle, and the NN kept figuring that it had to go around it rather than follow it. But the "obstacle" kept changing position and it kept going through the same little decision-making loop. This could explain it moving into the bike lane (and over the double yellow) to try to see if it is safe to get around it.
This may be an example of one of the difficult 9's in the March of 9's - there will always be another scenario the training set has never seen before. A human can easily see that it's a tree inside a trailer attached to moving vehicle, but maybe the Waymo couldn't work that out - NN's are not capable of reasoning.
voyager
Active Member
Not only Waymo under investigation...
"News of the investigation comes hot on the heels of a separate review of Zoox’s autonomous driving technology.
In that case, two autonomous Toyota Highlanders were involved in collisions after they “unexpectedly braked
suddenly” and were rear-ended by motorcyclists.
www.carscoops.com
"News of the investigation comes hot on the heels of a separate review of Zoox’s autonomous driving technology.
In that case, two autonomous Toyota Highlanders were involved in collisions after they “unexpectedly braked
suddenly” and were rear-ended by motorcyclists.
Waymo Under Investigation Following 22 Incidents Including Multiple Crashes | Carscoops
Waymo is apparently playing bumper cars as the government has revealed collisions with stationary and semi-stationary objects as well as parked vehicles
www.carscoops.com
I think the perception might classify the object as a tree and not a trailer which would explain why it wants to go around it all the time. But the stupid tree is always one step ahead....
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Yes that is the other theory. If true, then the answer would be to train the perception stack to understand this case. We've seen research examples from Waymo that deal with this type of case of a composite object (one object inside or connected to another object). So they are aware of the problem but this could be an edge case.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Interesting that we are seeing these reports.Not only Waymo under investigation...
"News of the investigation comes hot on the heels of a separate review of Zoox’s autonomous driving technology.
In that case, two autonomous Toyota Highlanders were involved in collisions after they “unexpectedly braked
suddenly” and were rear-ended by motorcyclists.
Waymo Under Investigation Following 22 Incidents Including Multiple Crashes | Carscoops
Waymo is apparently playing bumper cars as the government has revealed collisions with stationary and semi-stationary objects as well as parked vehicles
Waymo and Zoox have very tiny fleets - and yet we hear about Tesla phantom braking all the time but rarely actual accidents.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
That's because Tesla FSD is supervised so there is a safety driver to prevent a collision. I've had phantom braking that would have resulted in a collision had I not immediately intervened.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
But we also see so many reports of - "if there was someone at the back there would have been an accident".
So, I wonder, is FSD less likely to brake if there is a vehicle coming at the back. Since FSD would calculate the risk weighted probability of an accident, if there is no one at the back - chance of a rear ending becomes near zero. So, even a small chance of a forward collision - because the perception for whatever reason thinks there is something in ahead with say 10% chance - is handled by FSD braking. But in the same situation if someone is at the back, it might calculate a rear-ending chance as being 50% and thus won't break (or may be not as hard).
This is somewhat like when people complain about crossing the line. "If a vehicle was there at that it there would have been an accident" - but if there was a vehicle, FSD wouldn't have likely crossed the line !
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Might not even be a tree classification issue, just a general problem of a "drive around" target that moves. The incident where the Waymo drove on the wrong way may be similar, where it identified a moving object as something it needed to drive around, except that object moved with it, which kept the Waymo in the wrong lane.
Ben W
Chess Grandmaster (Supervised)
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Thats hilarious.
I definitely want to see what FSD would do. Its one of those "edge" cases where Tesla theoretically has an advantage.
Ben W
Chess Grandmaster (Supervised)
With the dust settling on the Chinese EV tariffs announcement, something that I'm curious about.
Will Waymo's new vehicles be hit with the tariffs?
Since they are designed by Zeeker and made by Geely in China as well as being all electric, one would assume they are impacted as well and may push Waymo to use a different manufacturer or vehicle entirely.
For those unaware: the tax rate on imported Chinese EVs will rise to 102.5% this year, up from 27.5%
Will Waymo's new vehicles be hit with the tariffs?
Since they are designed by Zeeker and made by Geely in China as well as being all electric, one would assume they are impacted as well and may push Waymo to use a different manufacturer or vehicle entirely.
For those unaware: the tax rate on imported Chinese EVs will rise to 102.5% this year, up from 27.5%
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