Toyota's PHEV/REEV Plans

[Brent]

A few tidbits on Toyota's lithium ion battery plans from today's NY Times:

Lithium-ion batteries, which are already in wide use in laptops and other gadgets, are smaller yet more powerful than the nickel-metal hydride batteries now used in gas-electric hybrids like the Prius. But lithium-ion batteries will not be used in the Prius, which has been on sale for a decade and is the most popular hybrid on the market, according to Toyota.

The lithium-ion battery will be used in a plug-in hybrid, which would recharge from a regular home power socket and travel longer as an electric vehicle than the Prius.
Toyota has started tests on its plug-in hybrid, but has not shown a model using the new battery.

Masatami Takimoto, an executive vice president who oversees technology, said that Toyota’s lithium-ion battery was almost ready for mass production, but would not start up until after 2008.

Katsuaki Watanabe, the president of Toyota, said that hybrids would be a pillar of Toyota’s growth in the years ahead, and reiterated the company’s plan to offer hybrid versions of all its models after 2020.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/26/business/26toyota.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin

 

[TEG]

Toyota is taking their time getting into the PHEV space.

 

[TEG]

Testing the waters:
Toyota to start plug-in hybrid leasing | MNN - Mother Nature Network

Toyota Motor Corp., the world's top automaker, will start leasing 200 plug-ins in Japan, 150 in the U.S. and 150 in Europe, mostly for rental, such as through special government-backed programs, it said in a release. Toyota will for the first time use lithium-ion batteries in the plug-ins.

Toyota Hedges its Bets on Plug-In Hybrids (Part Two) | BNET Auto Blog | BNET

 

[AnOutsider]

Interesting.. don't a lot of people rag on Tesla for using "antiquated" Lion batteries?

 

[vfx]

My opinion is that the reason Toyota is not going the way of the pure EV is they don't believe battery powered cars are not ready. That the technology at this point will create a non-perfect car not up to their high standards. These testing of the waters is just lip service to appear interested.

 

[TEG]

Well, the last time they tried to sell a pure EV in the USA (RAV4EV) they got rather burned by the experience, didn't they? Perhaps it isn't too surprising that they are a bit tentative this time around.

 

[vfx]

Well, the last time they tried to sell a pure EV in the USA (RAV4EV) they got rather burned by the experience, didn't they? Perhaps it isn't too surprising that they are a bit tentative this time around.

Good point. But one wonders if the same people are even in position?

 

[TEG]

Good point. But one wonders if the same people are even in position?

I think Toyota has a strong corporate memory. As a company they really don't like to make the same mistakes twice.

 

[domenick]

I suspect Toyota is down with Sun Tzu.

19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable;
when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we
are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

 

[doug]

I suspect Toyota is down with Sun Tzu.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. I'd bet they have some EV tech ready to go. But right now they believe the most profitable thing for them to do is keep selling Priuses to further amortize their current technology.

 

[TEG]

Green Car Congress: Report: Toyota To Start Commercial Production of Plug-In Hybrids In 2012

 

[DDB]

Green Car Congress: Report: Toyota To Start Commercial Production of Plug-In Hybrids In 2012

It's projected to be more expensive than the Volt! Interesting...

 

[dpeilow]

With four times less EV range...

 

[TEG]

I always thought Bill Reinert (Toyota's Advanced Technology group manager) was a plug-in advocate since in "Who Killed the Electric Car" he basically down played their own fuel cell research vehicles as being too far off. Recently it seems he is saying that the current hybrid Prius is 'good enough'.

dustbury.com » The first law of Disney

...The first law of Disney 30 June 2009 @ 3:33 pm ·
Bill Reinert is national manager of Toyota’s advanced technology group in the US. He’s a green sort of guy — fuel cells and carbon sequestration are both high on his wish list — but he’s also something of a realist, as Preston Lerner reports in Automobile (8/09):

“That’s the first law of Disney — wishing will make it so. I see it all the time from those Palo Alto types. They think the whole world is like a computer company, and they’re always trying to recreate the dot-com economy.”

And we all know how well that worked out. So here’s his push:

“I used to be a big 100-miles-per-gallon guy. But I realized that we’re above the level of diminishing returns at 50 miles per gallon. So why not make a whole bunch of 50-miles-per-gallon cars and put people who are driving 20-miles-per-gallon cars into them?”

Especially, you know, since Toyota happens to have an actual legitimate 50-mpg car already.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I always thought Bill Reinert (Toyota's Advanced Technology group manager) was a plug-in advocate since in "Who Killed the Electric Car" he basically down played their own fuel cell research vehicles as being too far off. Recently it seems he is saying that the current hybrid Prius is 'good enough'.

dustbury.com » The first law of Disney

Toyota's Reinert Talks 'Death Watch' on Three Electric Cars


From here we can definitely tell he's not a plug-in advocate.

 

[TEG]

It is a shame that he isn't more favorable on EVs and PHEVs. He seems very knowledgeable and intelligent about the whole situation. Some have accused him of starting to "tow the Toyota party line" a bit more recently as he gets ready to retire though. It is true that the batteries are perhaps still too expensive for unsubsidized mainstream adoption just now.

 

[Serge]

Maneuvering?

It's projected to be more expensive than the Volt! Interesting...

Toyota has been known to drop prices in response to competitive pressure (as recently as this Spring in response to Insight II). Also, 2012 is still 2.5 years away and TM has a lot of non-plug-in Prii to sell in that time-frame. This may well be a "message of reassurance" to potential Prius buyers: "Don't hold out for the plug-in version (expensive, limited EV range); go on and buy that 3-Gen Prius now."
If Volt rolls off in 2011 as planned and sells well (eroding away Toyota's Prius business), they may well announce the imminent release of PP with lower price and higher EV range, because they worked on it day and night despite public pronouncements

 

[TEG]

The Plug-In Prius Is Coming In 2012 | Autopia | Wired.com

 

[Serge]

Plug-in Prius will be revealed at Frankfurt Motor Show

Frankfurt Preview: More on Toyota's new lithium-ion Plug-in Prius - Autoblog Green
Highlights:
EV mode speeds up to 62 mph;
EV mode range up to 12.5 miles.