Tax credit 2024 [The tax credit discussion thread]

[driver4848]

I talked to another Tesla rep. yesterday afternoon, same story, they told me to talk to the IRS, I told the guy that the IRS indicates that they seller needs to provide the information to them and the buyer, that I was just asking for a copy of a obligation they have.
I asked to talk to the supervisor, after 20min of waiting, the supervisor answers, I told him a need a copy of the 15400 that I have requested several times in the website, he said that the system bla bla bla, he asked me to send a screenshot of the documents list. Once he saw the screenshot, he said he was going to process the form manually and that I should get it on Wednesday the latest. Now I need to wait.

I have good news to report, a Tesla rep called me, asked a couple of information including my SSN, and he emailed me the 15400. Is dated 4/9/24, way beyond the deadline. We submitted our taxes and our preparer attached a PDF of the form. At least we have a copy in case the IRS don’t have the info.
I hope this helps anyone missing the form.

 

[PineNut]

I have good news to report, a Tesla rep called me, asked a couple of information including my SSN, and he emailed me the 15400. Is dated 4/9/24, way beyond the deadline. We submitted our taxes and our preparer attached a PDF of the form. At least we have a copy in case the IRS don’t have the info.
I hope this helps anyone missing the form.

Thanks for the info. I purchased a 2024 MY on 1/30/2024 and did receive the full $7500 point of sale (POS) credit. However, I also never got a 15400 form from Tesla so I guess I'll be contacting them. I agree you probably don't need to include it in your tax return, but we are supposed to get one. In my Tesla account I did get a "Clean Vehicle Seller Report" which has some of the form 15400 info, but not everything you need and not the form itself.

It's been awhile since new info has been posted so here are a few comments...

The IRS keeps updating their Clean Vehicle Fact Sheet with the latest version dated 4/18/2024 and it can be downloaded here.

I have a question which is related to EVs purchased in 2024 with a POS credit. The Fact Sheet says you need to still file form 8936 in your 2024 tax return even though you already got a POS credit. There is a potential problem with that because I don't see anything in the TY2023 form 8936 which let's you avoid claiming a second $7500 credit. Just filing the 8936 causes another credit. Hopefully the TY2024 version of form 8936 will let you check a box stating you already received a $7500 POS credit and are NOT requesting another $7500 credit (or have a check box to assign the credit to the dealer). I don't want to do anything which could lead to an audit and appearing to claim two $7500 credits may not help.

I usually use H&R Block software and in the 2023 version it is possible to edit out the $7500 credit from the 8936 without doing an override. If you override anything in H&R Block the software will not let you efile and that forces you to paper file instead. But in this case I was able to just delete the $7500 without having to override. But hopefully there will be something better in the 2024 version to address this issue. Even zeroing out the $7500 credit can create confusion.

Any other suggestions about how to avoid claiming two credits? Maybe I missed it on the current form 8936?

 

[MP3Mike]

Any other suggestions about how to avoid claiming two credits? Maybe I missed it on the current form 8936?

There was no POS credit in 2023, so the form wouldn't have anything related to it. You will have to wait for the 2024 turns to be available.

 

[pdx_m3s]

In 2023, my AGI was below the $300k MFJ limit. I'm purchasing a Model 3 in 2024 and intend to take the POS tax credit. It is possible that my AGI exceeds $300k this year (2024). If it does exceed the limit, will I have to repay the tax credit when I file my 2024 taxes in early 2025?

 

[MP3Mike]

In 2023, my AGI was below the $300k MFJ limit. I'm purchasing a Model 3 in 2024 and intend to take the POS tax credit. It is possible that my AGI exceeds $300k this year (2024). If it does exceed the limit, will I have to repay the tax credit when I file my 2024 taxes in early 2025?

You will be fine, you can qualify for the 2024 POS credit with your 2023 AGI.

 

[pdx_m3s]

You will be fine, you can qualify for the 2024 POS credit with your 2023 AGI.

Thanks.

Highland Performance secured

 

[Maybe_buyer]

I just spoke to tesla in Philadelphia. After some research he came back to me and explained that the sales tax is applied on the price

After the $4000 tax credit is applied.

So I now have a very large car dealer in VA and the tesla dealership in Philadelphia agreeing that if I'm not paying $25000 I am not on the hook for state sales tax on the full amount.

The tesla rep said the used car team would send me documents that confirm this is how the tax situation should work in 2024 with the changes made whereby dealers get free money directly from the government.

I will share/upload same once I receive it.

To new tesla buyer's are you paying state sales tax on the full purchase amount?

Just curious.

Not sure why folks here are so snarky in their replies all I'm trying to do is understand what the rules are and learn and share.

And no I'm not trying to cheat on my taxes owed.

So if you want to slam me for investigating and sharing please move along.

Just a final update on this issue for used Tesla buyers (at least those in PA). I just paid my sales tax at the largest Notary in the county I live in, and I selected them because when I explained my issue, about what is the "Sales Price" used for calculating "Sales Tax owed" in PA ,

she laughed when I explained how one dealer in VA said "Tax due on actual price you Paid" after the Federal rebate applied, and a Second Dealer in Va insisted that ... I must pay tax on the full purchase price.

I finally got my title, from the VA dealer today, and took all my paperwork in, and paid "Sales Tax on the $ out of my pocket paid to the dealer in VA".

IE, exactly as I posted, I pay sales tax on the used car price AFTER the guberment subsidizes my used car purchase (Sell price of $25K, minus $4k).

So flame away on how stupid my local Notary is (with 15 fancy offices in my county).. and how I am going to be sent a tax bill from PA for not sending them $240 extra to pay tax on the $4000 used car tax credit that comes from the federal bucket, direct to the dealer in 2024, with zero input from me .

Of course.. if they send me a bill, I will happily send them the extra cash..

But.. I am not going to send them an email and say.. hey.. my notary/dealer made a mistake can you please issue a refund for the extra tax you received.

That ain't happening ever in today's world LOL

 

[mongo]

on the $4000 used car tax credit that comes from the federal bucket, direct to the dealer in 2024, with zero input from me .

That's not how it works. You have to request the credit and the dealer is supposed to give it to you, or, at your request, apply it as additional down payment.

For buyers: The payment made by the registered dealer to the buyer in the form of a cash payment, down payment or partial down payment is not includible in the gross income of the buyer. Such payment made by the registered dealer is treated as an advance payment of the credit to the buyer on behalf of the Secretary of the Treasury and the basis of such vehicle is reduced by the amount of such credit

https://www.irs.gov/pub/taxpros/fs-2024-14.pdf

 

[smak]

If getting the $7,500 at POS, do you pay sales tax on the original amount, or on $7,500 less?

 

[mongo]

If getting the $7,500 at POS, do you pay sales tax on the original amount, or on $7,500 less?

Should be original amount.
$7,500 acts like additional down payment.

 

[tekkie_m3]

I'm trying to go over these scenarios. This is fairly straight forward I hope..I know you aren't giving me tax advise..but for example:

Below $300k AGI, usually owe around $2-4k in taxes every year.

How would the $7500 at POS credit be applied and work out in the end for my 2024 taxes assuming the above?

Thx

 

[mongo]

I'm trying to go over these scenarios. This is fairly straight forward I hope..I know you aren't giving me tax advise..but for example:

Below $300k AGI, usually owe around $2-4k in taxes every year.

How would the $7500 at POS credit be applied and work out in the end for my 2024 taxes assuming the above?

Thx

$7,500 extra down-payment (unless you request it back as cash), no impact on your taxes other than needing to file an additional form.

 

[PineNut]

I'm trying to go over these scenarios. This is fairly straight forward I hope..I know you aren't giving me tax advise..but for example:

Below $300k AGI, usually owe around $2-4k in taxes every year.

How would the $7500 at POS credit be applied and work out in the end for my 2024 taxes assuming the above?

Thx

Just to clarify, the $300k AGI limit for the $7500 POS credit applies if you you file your taxes as married filing joint. Income is limited to $150k if you file as single (or married filing separate). You need to meet the income limit requirement in either your TY2023 or TY2024 federal taxes.

You also need to include form 8936 in your 2024 taxes even if you already got the credit at point-of-sale. Tesla is supposed to file (and/or give you) form 15400. However, I never got that form although Tesla did provide what they call a "Clean Vehicle Seller Report" which is not a tax form. I spoke with a Tesla agent and asked about the 15400 and the agent said Tesla will not provide one even though I told him it was required by law. I plan to try a second Tesla agent which is what driver4848 did in an earlier post. I don't know how strict the IRS will be about getting form 15400 and I don't understand why Tesla has a problem providing one.

 

[mongo]

Just to clarify, the $300k AGI limit for the $7500 POS credit applies if you you file your taxes as married filing joint. Income is limited to $150k if you file as single (or married filing separate). You need to meet the income limit requirement in either your TY2023 or TY2024 federal taxes.

You also need to include form 8936 in your 2024 taxes even if you already got the credit at point-of-sale. Tesla is supposed to file (and/or give you) form 15400. However, I never got that form although Tesla did provide what they call a "Clean Vehicle Seller Report" which is not a tax form. I spoke with a Tesla agent and asked about the 15400 and the agent said Tesla will not provide one even though I told him it was required by law. I plan to try a second Tesla agent which is what driver4848 did in an earlier post. I don't know how strict the IRS will be about getting form 15400 and I don't understand why Tesla has a problem providing one.

Did the form Tesla gave you have the required information that they report to the IRS on form 15400 (Clean Vehicle Seller Report)?

 

[PineNut]

Did the form Tesla gave you have the required information that they report to the IRS on form 15400 (Clean Vehicle Seller Report)?

Not exactly. You need the Tesla EIN number and the form Tesla gives you has it, but just the last four digits. I'm guessing a Google search may find the full EIN. However, the 15400 is supposed to be signed by the dealer and the Tesla Clean Vehicle report is not signed, but maybe it would be accepted by the IRS since it's directly from Tesla?

If you use tax software and efile, there may be no way to attach the Tesla form. You might have to mail in your tax return instead.

Anyway, there are several unanswered questions so it would be much better if Tesla simply provided the 15400 form. There are still 11 months until 2024 taxes are due so hopefully there will be an answer before that time.

 

[mongo]

Not exactly. You need the Tesla EIN number and the form Tesla gives you has it, but just the last four digits. I'm guessing a Google search may find the full EIN. However, the 15400 is supposed to be signed by the dealer and the Tesla Clean Vehicle report is not signed, but maybe it would be accepted by the IRS since it's directly from Tesla?

If you use tax software and efile, there may be no way to attach the Tesla form. You might have to mail in your tax return instead.

Anyway, there are several unanswered questions so it would be much better if Tesla simply provided the 15400 form. There are still 11 months until 2024 taxes are due so hopefully there will be an answer before that time.

You as a taxpayer don't submit the 15400, you use the data it has to fill out your firms. Though I'm not sure how much is needed now, with the new portal, IRS can cross reference off your SSN and VIN and the 2024 forms may reflect that.

 

[PineNut]

You as a taxpayer don't submit the 15400, you use the data it has to fill out your firms. Though I'm not sure how much is needed now, with the new portal, IRS can cross reference off your SSN and VIN and the 2024 forms may reflect that.

Here is what is says on the 15400 form from the link I provided:

"Who Must File
Sellers of new clean vehicles to a buyer must file a completed report with the IRS and furnish the report to the buyer for the vehicle to
be eligible for the section 30D credit."

You are correct the seller must file the report with the IRS, but the seller is also required to provide a copy to the buyer in order to get the credit. All I know at this point is I did not get a copy of the 15400, nor did driver4848 in the post above. However, driver4848 was able to get the report after speaking to a few Tesla agents. I failed to get a copy on my first attempt.

I'm guessing Tesla did provide the 15400 to the IRS (why can't they at least confirm this?), but if not, those who purchased a Tesla in 2024 and got the $7500 POS credit may have a problem with the IRS in 2025. If Tesla would simply send me a copy of the 15400, then I'd be more confident that one was provided to the IRS.

By the way, I did Google the Tesla EIN number and it is 91-2197729. The last four digits do match what was on my Clean Vehicle report from Tesla.

 

[mongo]

Here is what is says on the 15400 form from the link I provided:

"Who Must File
Sellers of new clean vehicles to a buyer must file a completed report with the IRS and furnish the report to the buyer for the vehicle to
be eligible for the section 30D credit."

You are correct the seller must file the report with the IRS, but the seller is also required to provide a copy to the buyer in order to get the credit. All I know at this point is I did not get a copy of the 15400, nor did driver4848 in the post above. However, driver4848 was able to get the report after speaking to a few Tesla agents. I failed to get a copy on my first attempt.

I'm guessing Tesla did provide the 15400 to the IRS (why can't they at least confirm this?), but if not, those who purchased a Tesla in 2024 and got the $7500 POS credit may have a problem with the IRS in 2025. If Tesla would simply send me a copy of the 15400, then I'd be more confident that one was provided to the IRS.

By the way, I did Google the Tesla EIN number and it is 91-2197729. The last four digits do match what was on my Clean Vehicle report from Tesla.

Keep in mind that is a tax year 2023 form. The form you recieved may have been this:

For vehicles placed in service in 2024 or later, providing buyers a copy of the seller report submitted to IRS Energy Credits Online and the confirmation that the IRS accepted the submission meets your reporting obligation.

For 2024, a time of sale credit is only given after Treasury/ IRS has approved the sellers submission via the portal. After that, the only way to be disqualified is to be over the MAGI limits for both the purchase year and the previous one.
If one were to defer until end of year, the seller still must submit the information through the portal at the time of sale. In that situation, verification is warranted.

For eligible clean vehicles placed in service on or after January 1, 2024, you must submit all reports through IRS Energy Credits Online within 3 calendar days of the date of sale. You must also provide the buyer with a copy of the accepted seller report submitted to IRS Energy Credits Online within 3 calendar days of the date of submission.
Clean vehicle credit seller or dealer requirements | Internal Revenue Service

Old way:

For vehicles placed in service in 2023, you needed to provide the following information to buyers at the time of sale:
Seller/Dealer name and taxpayer ID number
Buyer's name and taxpayer ID number
Maximum credit allowable under IRC 30D for new vehicles or IRC 25E for previously owned vehicles Vehicle identification number (VIN), unless the vehicle is not assigned one
Battery capacity
Date of sale
Sale price
For new vehicles, verification that the buyer is the original user

 

[PineNut]

Good point about my form 8936/15400 links being 2023 forms. The 2024 forms could certainly change.

Also, I rechecked the latest IRS Fact Sheet (dated 4/14/24 and issued 4/18/24) and I don't see any mention of form 15400 in it. So perhaps the Clean Vehicle report I received from Tesla is all the IRS needs from Tesla although you are still required to file form 8936 for TY2024, even if you already received the $7500 credit. As I mentioned in a previous post here, I'm guessing the 8936 will also change for TY2024 because if you use the 2023 version it might appear you are requesting a second $7500 credit assuming you already received a point-of-sale credit (although I guess you could request no credit by entering $0 on line 18 of the 8936, but that wouldn't be following the instructions).

Looking again at the Clean Vehicle report I did receive, the form does appear to have been sent to Tesla from the IRS (with some info starred out). I'll try to post a copy of it here when I have enough time to scan it.