Israel/Hamas conflict

[Jigglypuff]

Then they can play the victim card. Very good at it

Among Israeli citizens, I believe that's a small minority. Most are pretty content from what I've seen. Police don't go around asking Arab Israelis for their papers. Lots of segregation in that society at night. Not as much during the day. It's an interesting country for sure.

"Few Americans identify with their states more than with the nation"
Militarily or foreign policy wise but when it comes to local day-to-day life, the majority of Americans will always focus on the local/state level first.

btw: sorry, facts are facts, regardless of the source delivery. I'd bet that your dismissal of that periodical aligns with your strong political views versus basis in fact (I derive mine from subscribing/reading and understanding both sides of the spectrum and ignore the rhetoric of the fringes of both ). That brief article delineates facts regardless of your dismissal.

I don't think I've ever met an American anywhere on the political spectrum who has identified themselves with state over country, at least not out loud. I don't know any true extremists though. I do know people who don't feel a lot of patriotism, but then they also don't feel much of a connection to their state or locality either. They're more "I'm a human" or "I'm trans" type of people.

The brief article from the Heritage Foundation cherry picks some facts and then spins them into a far larger message than the facts prove. It's classic political misdirection. The Time article, in contrast, brings a lot more information in and then draws clear conclusions without spinning. But you be you.

 

[wdolson]

Among Israeli citizens, I believe that's a small minority. Most are pretty content from what I've seen. Police don't go around asking Arab Israelis for their papers. Lots of segregation in that society at night. Not as much during the day. It's an interesting country for sure.

There is a minority faction in the Kneset of Arab-Israelis too.

I don't think I've ever met an American anywhere on the political spectrum who has identified themselves with state over country, at least not out loud. I don't know any true extremists though. I do know people who don't feel a lot of patriotism, but then they also don't feel much of a connection to their state or locality either. They're more "I'm a human" or "I'm trans" type of people.

Identifying with your state over the country is rarer these days, but it was common early in American history. Before the 20th century most people in the US settled in one spot and their descendants generally stayed in that area unless something caused them to move. People in other parts of the world were even less mobile than in America. The world was a much smaller place then.

Because the country was stitched together from 13 separate colonies, this state identification was very strong among those who wrote the constitution and ended up reflected in the constitution. The bulk of the population was good with this too because they tended to identify more with their states than the federal government.

Over time that has weakened as people have become more mobile. I know very few people who have lived in one state their entire life. I've lived in two and I now live in the metro area of a third so I'm kind of tied to Oregon even though I've never lived in that state.

The US governmental structure is very state-centric, but the people are increasingly not.

 

[Bouba]

Just a little aside…Eden Golan, the Israeli entrant in the Eurovision Song Contest came fifth overall…but most importantly, in the popular vote (which is open to the entire public of Europe and in fact worldwide) she came second.
This is in spite of the boos from some of the audience, the riots outside, being snubbed by her fellow contestants and enduring threats, insults, being under virtual house arrest and having armed guards.
The message to me is clear…those on the street are but a tiny fraction of the population and represent the exact opposite of public at large

 

[wdolson]

Just a little aside…Eden Golan, the Israeli entrant in the Eurovision Song Contest came fifth overall…but most importantly, in the popular vote (which is open to the entire public of Europe and in fact worldwide) she came second.
This is in spite of the boos from some of the audience, the riots outside, being snubbed by her fellow contestants and enduring threats, insults, being under virtual house arrest and having armed guards.
The message to me is clear…those on the street are but a tiny fraction of the population and represent the exact opposite of public at large

Or the public at large has an open mind and actually liked the song.

The size of the campus protests in the US are small compared to the Vietnam War. I saw something where a professor at Columbia was talking about his experience of the protest and he said the bulk of the student body were just ignoring the protesters and going about getting an education.

 

[Bouba]

Or the public at large has an open mind and actually liked the song.

The size of the campus protests in the US are small compared to the Vietnam War. I saw something where a professor at Columbia was talking about his experience of the protest and he said the bulk of the student body were just ignoring the protesters and going about getting an education.

Here’s a good example……

Virginia Commonwealth University students walk out of graduation

Dozens of VCU grads left during Gov Glenn Youngkin's speech, in part over his comments on campus protests.

www.bbc.com

I don’t know how many graduates there are but I know that there are 30,000 students and we are talking of ‘dozens’….this should be local news at the very best…but this is the bbc so it’s international. I know the bbc, their goal is social engineering…they want to light the blue touch paper on campus demonstrations worldwide…they know they have the gravitas to go unchallenged

 

[wdolson]

Here’s a good example……

Virginia Commonwealth University students walk out of graduation

Dozens of VCU grads left during Gov Glenn Youngkin's speech, in part over his comments on campus protests.

www.bbc.com

I don’t know how many graduates there are but I know that there are 30,000 students and we are talking of ‘dozens’….this should be local news at the very best…but this is the bbc so it’s international. I know the bbc, their goal is social engineering…they want to light the blue touch paper on campus demonstrations worldwide…they know they have the gravitas to go unchallenged

I wouldn't attribute any political agenda to reporting it. News want to draw in eyeballs and salacious news stories do that. So news organizations seek out these kinds of stories, no matter how small.

 

[Bouba]

I wouldn't attribute any political agenda to reporting it. News want to draw in eyeballs and salacious news stories do that. So news organizations seek out these kinds of stories, no matter how small.

The story is one of their main headlines on their website…..there is starvation and ethnic cleansing around the world…

 

[Jigglypuff]

Identifying with your state over the country is rarer these days, but it was common early in American history. Before the 20th century most people in the US settled in one spot and their descendants generally stayed in that area unless something caused them to move. People in other parts of the world were even less mobile than in America. The world was a much smaller place then.

Because the country was stitched together from 13 separate colonies, this state identification was very strong among those who wrote the constitution and ended up reflected in the constitution. The bulk of the population was good with this too because they tended to identify more with their states than the federal government.

Over time that has weakened as people have become more mobile. I know very few people who have lived in one state their entire life. I've lived in two and I now live in the metro area of a third so I'm kind of tied to Oregon even though I've never lived in that state.

The US governmental structure is very state-centric, but the people are increasingly not.

I'm sure things were quite different 250 years ago.

Just a little aside…Eden Golan, the Israeli entrant in the Eurovision Song Contest came fifth overall…but most importantly, in the popular vote (which is open to the entire public of Europe and in fact worldwide) she came second.
This is in spite of the boos from some of the audience, the riots outside, being snubbed by her fellow contestants and enduring threats, insults, being under virtual house arrest and having armed guards.
The message to me is clear…those on the street are but a tiny fraction of the population and represent the exact opposite of public at large

It's a call in vote. I don't read too much into it. A few thousand sim cards in Vietnam can make a huge difference. Then again, it's Eurovision, so it doesn't matter anyway. Those songs are all mediocre at best. It always feels like a talent show of the lame.

The size of the campus protests in the US are small compared to the Vietnam War. I saw something where a professor at Columbia was talking about his experience of the protest and he said the bulk of the student body were just ignoring the protesters and going about getting an education.

This is the way. Alas, these people cannot always be ignored when they barricade paths through campus, violently disrupt meetings, and cause classes to cancel.

Here’s a good example……

Virginia Commonwealth University students walk out of graduation

Dozens of VCU grads left during Gov Glenn Youngkin's speech, in part over his comments on campus protests.

www.bbc.com

I don’t know how many graduates there are but I know that there are 30,000 students and we are talking of ‘dozens’….this should be local news at the very best…but this is the bbc so it’s international. I know the bbc, their goal is social engineering…they want to light the blue touch paper on campus demonstrations worldwide…they know they have the gravitas to go unchallenged

Virginia Commonwealth University? I've literally never heard of it until now. That school attracts locals who want a step up in life, not privileged rich kids who want to join a fad and social justice warriors who write entertaining college essays. A 91% acceptance rate is not much more discerning than that of community college.

 

[Bouba]

I'm sure things were quite different 250 years ago.

It's a call in vote. I don't read too much into it. A few thousand sim cards in Vietnam can make a huge difference. Then again, it's Eurovision, so it doesn't matter anyway. Those songs are all mediocre at best. It always feels like a talent show of the lame.

This is the way. Alas, these people cannot always be ignored when they barricade paths through campus, violently disrupt meetings, and cause classes to cancel.

Virginia Commonwealth University? I've literally never heard of it until now. That school attracts locals who want a step up in life, not privileged rich kids who want to join a fad and social justice warriors who write entertaining college essays. A 91% acceptance rate is not much more discerning than that of community college.

The bbc has made it world famous...and more important it has shone a light on the tiny minority of activists....just like the Eurovision, the media and those who dwell in it are creating a narrative that doesn’t match the real world....but it won’t stop them.

 

[Electroman]

Or the public at large has an open mind and actually liked the song.

The size of the campus protests in the US are small compared to the Vietnam War. I saw something where a professor at Columbia was talking about his experience of the protest and he said the bulk of the student body were just ignoring the protesters and going about getting an education.

My friend who lives right next to Columbia in NYC said the same thing. Just a handful of protestors show up (less than 15) everyday but the woke media coverage gives the impression as if these are widespread with a lot of support.

These handful, because they are unchecked, and with the help of rent-a-protestors from outside managed to disrupt classes and even convocation celebrations too. This is what happens when you have a govt that is weak on crime and practices appeasement of extremists ideologies.

 

[Unclepaul]

Interesting that most all the college protests look identical. Same tents, same chants, same garb, same signs, same news coverage, and same outrage.

Looks to me to be a bit contrived and professionally produced, than a spontaneous student led demonstration.

They rarely allow back and forth conversations or open discussion.

 

[iPlug]

Telling and reassuring:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1789695641532158241

 

[iPlug]

Shocking, genocidal Hamas and their puppet master genocidal benefactors lie systemically. The sad parts are the extensive major media outlets and the UN that put those lies out in front page stories but are now hardly anywhere to be seen for retractions:

UN Halves Its Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza​

UN Halves Its Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza

 

[iPlug]

Shocking, genocidal Hamas and their puppet master genocidal benefactors lie systemically. The sad parts are the extensive major media outlets and the UN that put those lies out in front page stories but are now hardly anywhere to be seen for retractions:

UN Halves Its Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza​

UN Halves Its Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza

We will probably never know the actual figures. The only relatively ascertainable thing at this point is that the Hamas reported figures are contrived and almost certainly heavily inflated:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers

 

[jabloomf1230]

We will probably never know the actual figures. The only relatively ascertainable thing at this point is that the Hamas reported figures are contrived and almost certainly heavily inflated:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers

If somehow the real casualty figures were obtained, it would be difficult to separate out Hamas fighters casualties from those of adult civilians. The prewar estimate of the number of Hamas fighters was 30,000 to 40,000 and the IDF has claimed to have killed 10,000. Even these numbers are suspect, as is most of the information regarding this conflict.

 

[iPlug]

Sad that Hamas controls the narrative with the UN and media agencies regurgitating and propagating their falsified data and other disinformation. Hamas kills their own civilians and those agencies count them among purported Israeli aggressions. Hamas walks and hides among other agencies, executing the heinous enterprise of theirs and their benefactors, but always is Israel somehow the bad guy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1790475110899712231

https://twitter.com/x/status/1790483461855117594

 

[wdolson]

There has been a lot of hand wringing about younger Americans having a serious problem with Israel/Palestine. This is the results of a recent, large sample of people 18-29 and their biggest concerns. The war in Gaza ranks 15th.

 

[Jigglypuff]

There has been a lot of hand wringing about younger Americans having a serious problem with Israel/Palestine. This is the results of a recent, large sample of people 18-29 and their biggest concerns. The war in Gaza ranks 15th.

Interesting how low student debt is on the list.

 

[wdolson]

Interesting how low student debt is on the list.

I noticed that too. Though not all people have college degrees. According to this in 2022 about 50% had at least an AA degree, about 40% a Bachelor's degree, and about 10% have a Master's degree.
Educational Attainment Statistics [2023]: Levels by Demographic

So only about half the population would have any concerns at all about secondary education. On top of that some people who do have a secondary education don't have debt. Either their parent's were able to just write a check, they have support to go to college (GI bill, some kind of financial aid for the poor, etc.), or they were able to work and pay their way for the most part, they may have little or no debt.

Someone working and taking classes at a community college might be able to get through an AA program without breaking the bank.

Also the span includes 18-29 year olds. The younger people in that group may not have taken on much debt yet if they are in college.

I still found student debt surprisingly low.

 

[Jigglypuff]

My parents paid for my schooling, but I did two years of CC. As did my wife. As did my daughter. Not sure what my son will do. AP tests are over, so he has to decide soon if he's going to stick around for senior year or not. But we digress.

The pier is complete. Hopefully the US will inspect all shipments and stop weaponry from coming in.

Aid begins arrives in Gaza via US-built pier

The UN World Food Programme will have a handful of staff stationed near the pier to coordinate distribution of the aid - using contractors - throughout Gaza, said a UN official said.

www.jpost.com