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Full FSD Free Trial: Why I'd never buy it . . . ever.

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Never in a million years. Like many I received the free FSD trial in my 2023 Model 3 Performance. I accepted. And though I still have a few days left will not sign up for it - and - from a safety perspective - would never use it.

Opinion: [Yes - opinion based on my driving it all over town]
[My driving experience - I am an aggressive driver. I have owned a 911 for ten years. I own an FX4 3.5L 2019 F150. I also own a 2013 off road upgraded Wrangler JK. I have done Bondurant. I have road driving skills and off road driving skills. I am an instrument rated pilot and have a tail wheel endorsement - I am used to having a fast OODA loop and drive the same way. I have never had an accident, and have never been convicted of a moving violation - my insurance record is pristine. That said - I don't want anyone monitoring my driving because an insurers bot would determine after 50 years of perfect driving I'm a horrible risk. Competence is shown by facts, not actuarial conclusions based on G force and throttle use.]

FSD stinks. Two words. Its slow, buggy, inefficient, operates last second, scares the crap out a driver who is looking three cars ahead, and, sometimes, disconnects when it gets confused.

Specifics:
We have an intersection where there are three lanes. I come in from the T. There are two travel lanes. The right lane coming from the left exits right and there is a physical barrier to prevent people from continuing. The entry lane from the T is dedicated for 100 yards - with rubber traffic cones preventing anyone from exiting the lane or coming into the new lane. FSD literally gives up and disconnects at this intersection every single time. While many humans also hesitate here because they cannot process what they are seeing - FSD gives up, after approaching the intersection at 10 mph and being unable to process the lanes and entry.

Next, changing lanes. FSD is like a blind and deaf 85 year old in a 65' Coupe D'Ville. If there is a gap in the lane next to you that requires a simple 3-5mph acceleration, you'll never make it - the car ALWAYS slows down first and will not speed up and will not make a lane change in less than 10 seconds - it takes FOREVER to decide its safe to go. If you've ever been in LA or NYC traffic and needed to change lanes you need to jump in the lane before the other car occupies the space - FSD would NEVER do that.

Curves: If you are coming arounbd a curve with an empty lane in front of you but the other lane or lanes are backed up, FSD will slam on the brakes to stop 'seeing' a car in front of you even though there is no one in your lane. This is not a complex algo - 'see the lane,' see where the vehicles actually are - a computer that it 10,000x faster than a human mind should be able to do this.

Speed limits: Yes - I exceed the limit occasionally along with 95% of other drivers - beeping to get my attention that FSD will not brake is not helpful. All the beeping for every little thing is annoying - and distracting as hell.

Following distances: FSD is jerky - it wants to maintain a distance but is slow to accelerate and then slow to decelerate. In the average scenario where I could simply remove my foot from the accelerator and coast to a stop /hold - the car continues to use throttle and hits the brakes once it ascertains the closing rate is increasing. Likewise, on the highway, it slows down when it sees a faster vehicle and then takes its sweet time accelerating back up to speed - and sometimes never does. even basic autopilot has this issue. This is atypical to how a driver operates a vehicle. I see a red light I start to feather a throttle to come to a stop before coming to the light or line of cars - thats efficient driving.

To anyone who likes their self driving program - I'll dare you to a trip. Anywhere - rush hour, not rush hour. We start from the same point and same time - and I'll bet you that even if we drive the same speeds I'll still beat you to the destination and have more power remaining. . . . and not have to see my BP jump up because the car turns into a turn slow or disconnects or comes roaring up on group of stopped cars and slams on the brakes.

This is not how a trained driver drives - and certainly not how most humans drive either.
 
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Umm, funny, after most of the one month free trial we just happily upgraded from EAP to FSD for $2k. And, strangely enough, you I mostly agree with some of your points.

But also, for us, it works well almost all the time and reduces the stress of driving most of the time.

And, since you listed your "qualifications" I'll raise you mine: 50 years of driving with one accident (at age 17 my fault), 15 years of track days, 10 years of racing cars (current license), four years of racing motorcycles (current Expert license), solo'd in a taildragger, ATP pilot with 25,000 hours (including 1,000+ hours in F/A-18's including 273 carrier landings). So what?

My conclusion is that FSD works pretty well and, rather than wait a million years, I just bought it.

YMMV
 
Umm, funny, after most of the one month free trial we just happily upgraded from EAP to FSD for $2k. And, strangely enough, you I mostly agree with some of your points.

But also, for us, it works well almost all the time and reduces the stress of driving most of the time.

And, since you listed your "qualifications" I'll raise you mine: 50 years of driving with one accident (at age 17 my fault), 15 years of track days, 10 years of racing cars (current license), four years of racing motorcycles (current Expert license), solo'd in a taildragger, ATP pilot with 25,000 hours (including 1,000+ hours in F/A-18's including 273 carrier landings). So what?

My conclusion is that FSD works pretty well and, rather than wait a million years, I just bought it.

YMMV
Well. I coulda added my F14 traps and the 1400 hours there but I didn’t want to brag. Glad to see your track experience. I didn’t need another money pit. Had the airplane already, avoided boats, tracking cars and mistresses.
 
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So many folks seem not to have a slightest idea that driving is a privilege not a right.
Buy your own whatever and be an aggressive driver.

GTFO of the roads people use not to die to get to work and back. You get my point, ain't ya?

I'll sub to FSD on both of my cars. Aggressive driver my ass.
 
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Did we see any reference to what VERSION of FSD was used by the OP?

AFAIK, we are seeing substantial step change improvements in 12.3.5, and they're coming in far faster than normal . . . .

A snapshot/single data point is NOT a trend.

Recommend you update to the latest version and revisit this thread.

Thanks!
 
I think the late braking and scary closing distance is a fatal flaw that cant be fixed with current hardware. It just cant see far enough down the road.

My friend is a pilot, engineer, built his own Otter, has 2 Teslas (3 and S) that he bought the day afyer he drove my Y, and thinks FSD should be banned.

He loves EAP on highways, everything else: fail.
I believe this is a proper evaluation of the current software and hardware. . . . as for those who think I'm highly aggressive or unsafe - I did not buy a BMW ., . . ever.
 
Did we see any reference to what VERSION of FSD was used by the OP?

AFAIK, we are seeing substantial step change improvements in 12.3.5, and they're coming in far faster than normal . . . .

A snapshot/single data point is NOT a trend.

Recommend you update to the latest version and revisit this thread.

Thanks!
FSD is no longer Beta. I'm not down with helping fix a dead end product that should never be released.

Tesla had one chance to convince me, they went all in, and failed.

I've also had no accidents in over 600k lifetime miles. I keep FSD from actually crashing almost every time I use it.

One anecdotal safety disengagement proves FSD failed. 1000 perfect drives proves squat.

People who can't understand that have no business making any predictions about anything FSD.
 
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Never in a million years. Like many I received the free FSD trial in my 2023 Model 3 Performance. I accepted. And though I still have a few days left will not sign up for it - and - from a safety perspective - would never use it.

Opinion: [Yes - opinion based on my driving it all over town]
[My driving experience - I am an aggressive driver. I have owned a 911 for ten years. I own an FX4 3.5L 2019 F150. I also own a 2013 off road upgraded Wrangler JK. I have done Bondurant. I have road driving skills and off road driving skills. I am an instrument rated pilot and have a tail wheel endorsement - I am used to having a fast OODA loop and drive the same way. I have never had an accident, and have never been convicted of a moving violation - my insurance record is pristine. That said - I don't want anyone monitoring my driving because an insurers bot would determine after 50 years of perfect driving I'm a horrible risk. Competence is shown by facts, not actuarial conclusions based on G force and throttle use.]

FSD stinks. Two words. Its slow, buggy, inefficient, operates last second, scares the crap out a driver who is looking three cars ahead, and, sometimes, disconnects when it gets confused.


This is not how a trained driver drives - and certainly not how most humans drive either.


Let's see what happens in the future where your reaction times start getting longer, vision starts going away and you can't see anything after dusk.

You seem to expect FSD to be perfect, it's not even released yet, and still has a few releases before it will be. It is expected that you monitor it today, it is NOT feature complete.

You probably would never be able to exist in a cab or with a new teen driver.
 
Let's see what happens in the future where your reaction times start getting longer, vision starts going away and you can't see anything after dusk.

You seem to expect FSD to be perfect, it's not even released yet, and still has a few releases before it will be. It is expected that you monitor it today, it is NOT feature complete.

You probably would never be able to exist in a cab or with a new teen driver.
That's the thing - FSD should be better at this since it doesn't have to deal with a human's long reaction time to hit the brakes. Instead it dawdles along leaving a gap large enough for a bus to cut you off. I've said this before: EAP is better at highway following, AP1 is best.

Stop and go is finally getting smoother, though I wish Tesla would just focus on refining the following behavior for now. Then maybe they'd have a system that works for 90% of the situations where driving is a chore: poking along in rush hour traffic or eating up highway slab at 65+mph. They also may not have been leapfrogged by Mercedes to level 3, or Ford/GM at hands free driving.
 
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That's the thing - FSD should be better at this since it doesn't have to deal with a human's long reaction time to hit the brakes. Instead it dawdles along leaving a gap large enough for a bus to cut you off. I've said this before: EAP is better at highway following, AP1 is best.

Stop and go is finally getting smoother, though I wish Tesla would just focus on refining the following behavior for now. Then maybe they'd have a system that works for 90% of the situations where driving is a chore: poking along in rush hour traffic or eating up highway slab at 65+mph. They also may not have been leapfrogged by Mercedes to level 3, or Ford/GM at hands free driving.
You are mixing apples and oranges.

The new speed control is what is handling the speed, it's brand new and needs some tuning. Previously and if you turn it off, the car follows too closely. AT 75 mph, it stays back maybe 3 car lengths, way too short.

And I'm sorry, but leaving enough space for a bus to pull in front of you tends to be the appropriate distance. Sure, it may not be optimal for rush hour driving, but it is the right distance. But setting the driving style to aggressive can fis this a little.

But, the ironic thing is that you are complaining about the speed of the vehicle, not the driving. Speed may have been a little better in some cases in previous versions, but driving was far from as good as it is today.
If speed and following distance is all that you are complaining about then the Engineers are having a huge celebration! Speed and gap are easy.
 
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Never in a million years.
....
FSD stinks. Two words. Its slow, buggy, inefficient, operates last second, scares the crap out a driver who is looking three cars ahead, and, sometimes, disconnects when it gets confused.
I'm confused. You are saying you won't buy in a million years because you think FSD is static and won't improve for another million years ?

Thats a rather pessimistic view (esp. considering you are so optimistic about your lifespan) ;)