Elon & Twitter

[Singuy]

I just read literally 50 pages of this thread today and it is NOT people’s point. Not even close. Reading this thread like it’s a cliffhanger novel you just can’t put down gives one a perspective you don’t get reading a handful of posts spread out over a number of days. You get to see the main characters and the plot development in a unique way. (Side note: the book could have used a better editor - just a smidgen of repetitiveness)

The main point being made repeatedly is that these H1B employees are poor unfortunates with no choice but to push the ‘I’ll be a slave for big, bad Elon’ button, so I’m not forced to return to my homeland - under great duress of course. - because there are literally no other options.

Another point being made repeatedly is the suggestion these H1B employees aren’t very good engineers.

The first point being made is that these are H1B employees because you can tell by their faces from that one picture...not saying that's racist but it's kind of racist.

Oh hey look at all the asians! Must have just got off the boat and now held in a hostage situation....

 

[Singuy]

I especially like the people telling him he'll burn out soon. And he was like..nah...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594350932833480704

 

[Krugerrand]

I get it! It's like the guy in Colorado today who murdered 5 people and shot 25 more in the LGBQT bar. Why? Because he wanted to! What could be more simple? No need to think about motives. Otherwise you end up with a Faberge egg!

 

[Knightshade]

"Discussing" is not deploying, obviously. Again, the Wired article states: "...Birdwatch [experiment] began last year but was deployed on Twitter in October, weeks before Musk took over." I'd call that a new feature.

I'm sure you would but you keep being wrong about it.

Introducing Birdwatch, a community-based approach to misinformation

Twitter introduces Birdwatch, a community-based approach to misinformation

blog.twitter.com

That's from January 2021.

today we’re introducing Birdwatch

That is when the feature launched as a pilot in actual deployed production.

Almost 2 years ago.


I do admire the tenacity with which you continue to get literally everything wrong then double and triple down on it when it's pointed out rather than take 5 minutes to do your own research beyond reposting the same, already debunked, link over and over.

That takes a special... something.

 

[MC3OZ]

The first point being made is that these are H1B employees because you can tell by their faces from that one picture...not saying that's racist but it's kind of racist.

Oh hey look at all the asians! Must have just got off the boat and now held in a hostage situation....

Good to know that this was just a mirage:- Chinatown, San Francisco - Wikipedia

Even Wikipedia is fooled.

That is the last time I drink beer and attempt to play golf in SF.

 

[Ogre]

I especially like the people telling him he'll burn out soon. And he was like..nah...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594350932833480704

I don’t really know if this is legit or not. Dudes profile doesn’t even mention Twitter.

Filed under “I want to believe it… but not verified”

Just as legit as the stupid ex Twitter employee posts bouncing around though.

 

[Knightshade]

Sigh, so hard-headed. LMGTFY.

OK, let's clear the air on this properly.

1) Do you understand that downdetector is not a "monitoring" service?

Do you understand I never called it one.

You did while building Yet Another Strawman Of Something Nobody Said But You Want To Argue About.

That means what you are reporting is no more than a bunch of users that have gone to downdetector and reported something is offline or has a problem for them. Well, that seems a little bit ripe for abuse, perhaps, no?

No.

Because you again didn't bother to actually read what qualifies as a report they actually record as valid despite it being suggested you check multiple times.

A small number of users reporting a problem does not constitute a large-scale incident. To make sure that incidents are correctly represented, Downdetector calculates a baseline volume of typical problem reports for each service monitored, based on the average number of reports for that given time of day, measured over the previous year. Downdetector only reports an incident when the number of problem reports is significantly higher than the baseline.

Downdetector only accepts the first report for a specific company from a single user. Subsequent information about the issue is collected, but is not counted as a new problem report.

So no, you can't just go have a bunch of Elon haters spamming a bunch of complaints to cause a massive spike in problems.

Well, how might we sus this out, if it is possibly being abused? Oh, there's a comments section for downdetector on the twitter status page . . . . lets look at that and see what's in there. Oh my, lots and lots of Elon hate in there.

You appear to be confusing "comments" with "reported outages"


Are you SURE you do anything, at all, with IT? Because it never sounds like it.

So, can we do better? Perhaps.

2) Twitter maintains and updates a status page. That page gives ALL kinds of insight into what is going on at the server and software/api/services level. That page can be found here, with more than 24h of historical data:

Twitter Status - Page Inactive

api.twitterstat.us

*rotlf*

According to that page there's been no downtime... of anything... for months.

ZERO people have had problems with the service. For months.


I agree one of us is using ridiculously bad data, but it ain't me

But just in case Twitter might be faking their own data (and doing so long before Elon showed up, it would appear), let's find some reliable 3rd party monitoring sites that are NOT based upon subjective user reports.

3) Well, there are a decent number of automated status detectors (i.e. those that DO NOT rely upon user reports) that also monitor twitter:
Twitter Status. Check if Twitter is down or having problems. | StatusGator (no reported outages in the past 24 hours, AND they give historical data for Sept, Oct, and Nov 2022 - all report no outages)

Another ROTFL situation.

Know what those guys ACTUALLY do?

We monitor the official status pages of more than 2,560 cloud services in real-time, aggregate the data, and send you alerts via email, Slack, Teams, SMS, and more

So they just record whatever the same previous ridiculous source tells them.

According to it twitter has had zero problems for almost 2 years (as far as their data seems to go back)

Is Twitter Down? Check Twitter status and current outages (this one is also an automated monitor - also reports ZERO outages for the past 7 and 30 days)

Right, which is again why it's so laughable you're citing it. Doubly so since they appear to do the same thing the previous link does- just monitor the official twitter status page which keeps showing 0 downtime.

https://istheservicedown.com/problems/twitter (this one is also partially user-reported, but ironically the huge number of downtime reports don't correspond to what is on downdetector - we are at historical norms on this one)

I mean, they have a ton less users, so obviously total reports is lower...but then so is their baseline # they're comparing it to.

But did you notice that the report rate they DO have is much higher than normal? As much as double normal at several points on the graph.

So no, it's NOT at "historical norms" as you claimed. As specific examples on the current chart- it shows DOUBLE the historic norm error rate at 23:40 right at the start of the 24 hour period... Near DOUBLE again around 7:40, and at least 50% above norm a bunch of other times in that 24 hours.

So just like downdetector they're showing more problems recently.

Thanks for confirming it was right

Care to retract your statements now?

Why? It remains, unlike your stuff, 100% accurate.


YOUR sources keep saying 0 problems, not for months (or YEARS).

But we KNOW FOR A FACT there's been more than 0. Just a few days ago Elon broke 2FA for a while because he didn't understand what service did what for example and turned off the one that actually sends the 2FA codes.

This was widely reported.

But somehow NOT recorded as any sort of problem on twitters own status page you cited... and thus not recorded as a problem on the other nonsense links you gave that do nothing but repeat what the official pages says.


I'd ask if you wanna retract yours in the face of a specific example debunking your claims, but I know better than to ever expect you to recognize your mistakes

 

[PeterJA]

I'm sure you would but you keep being wrong about it.

Introducing Birdwatch, a community-based approach to misinformation

Twitter introduces Birdwatch, a community-based approach to misinformation

blog.twitter.com

That's from January 2021.

That is when the feature launched as a pilot in actual deployed production.

Almost 2 years ago.

Quoting from your link:

In this first phase of the pilot, notes will only be visible on a separate Birdwatch site.... These notes are being intentionally kept separate from Twitter for now, while we build Birdwatch and gain confidence that it produces context people find helpful and appropriate. Additionally, notes will not have an effect on the way people see Tweets or our system recommendations.​

That is obviously not actual deployment to Twitter feeds (such as Trump's), as correctly stated by the Wired article I posted several times. Did you read your own link before urging me to do research?

I do admire the tenacity with which you continue to get literally everything wrong then double and triple down on it when it's pointed out rather than take 5 minutes to do your own research beyond reposting the same, already debunked, link over and over.

That takes a special... something.

Thanks. I can't say I admire your tenacious twisting of the truth, constant insults, ignoring my requests for evidence, and dodging of the fact that Birdwatch/CommunityNotes was never applied to Trump's Twitter feed before, which makes it a new feature that he will be subject to if he returns. But keep arguing as usual. As I said, it shows who you are.

 

[Knightshade]

Quoting from your link:

In this first phase of the pilot, notes will only be visible on a separate Birdwatch site.... These notes are being intentionally kept separate from Twitter for now, while we build Birdwatch and gain confidence that it produces context people find helpful and appropriate. Additionally, notes will not have an effect on the way people see Tweets or our system recommendations.​

Yes. Which disproves your claim nothing was actually deployed until last month.

Or do you also not understand what deployed means?

That is obviously not actual deployment to Twitter feeds

But that DID happen in the following phases... all well before last month.

Last month was the final "for everybody" deployment.


It's kinda like if you tried telling us NOBODY has the FSD beta, because it's not yet in full wide release.

In fact, when twitter DID announce wide release, they cited a slew of data of how the people who had ALREADY SEEN IT IN THEIR PUBLIC TWITTER FEEDS had reacted to it.


Which is data that couldn't exist if they had JUST deployed it, rather than having deployed it quite some time ago.

According to the results of four surveys run at different times between August, 2021 and August, 2022, a person who sees a Birdwatch note is, on average, 20-40% less likely to agree with the substance of a potentially misleading Tweet than someone who sees the Tweet alone

Check those dates my dude.

They had people who SAW the birdwatch comments in Twitter feeds, going back almost 2 years (since obviously for them to have gotten results in Aug 21 they had people seeing them before then).


Just not EVERYONE.


So, no, it is not a new feature

And, obviously, not one Elon came up with either.

dodging of the fact that Birdwatch/CommunityNotes was never applied to Trump's Twitter feed before

Because this is ALSO a strawman, since literally nobody but you ever conflated the two things.

I did mention there's been a ton of OTHER fact checking, across every genre of media, of Trumps lies and it never, ever, appeared to have any impact whatsoever on them

So your claim that THIS suddenly would remains nonsensical.

(Doubly so since you used Fox News as your only evidence nobody had ever fact checked Trump before-- and only when I cited one of the MANY who had indeed fact checked him- nearly 1000 times in that case-- you just handwaived it away because it wasn't twitter... of course neither is Fox news but THAT was relevant...somehow... to you...)

 

[PeterJA]

Humans can manipulate things and lie too. We have plenty of examples.

Anyway how do they know they aren't bots. The people who do the last layer of checking for bots are gone.

I've been listening to Elon. I hear a lot of pipe dreams, but they fly in contradiction to the real world environment he's trying to enact them in.

Here's what I know: You and other armchair quarterbacks here have no idea who is gone from Twitter's engineering team, who remains or is newly recruited, what they are capable of, and what their plans are... unless you are one of them, in which case you'd have no time to post here.

I have pleaded for patience as the greatest entrepreneur in modern history builds a world-class software team from the remnants of a bloated money-losing collection of malcontents. But of course, patience is less satisfying to the kibitzing urge than opining about things you know little about, over and over again.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I especially like the people telling him he'll burn out soon. And he was like..nah...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594350932833480704

This is obviously a joke. There’s a whole genre of over the top fake Twitter employee tweets. It’s not hard to tell who the real Twitter employees are, they follow and are followed by other Twitter employees.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Here's what I know: You and other armchair quarterbacks here have no idea who is gone from Twitter's engineering team, who remains or is newly recruited, what they are capable of, and what their plans are... unless you are one of them, in which case you'd have no time to post here.

I have pleaded for patience as the greatest entrepreneur in modern history builds a world-class software team from the remnants of a bloated money-losing collection of malcontents. But of course, patience is less satisfying to the kibitzing urge than opining about things you know little about, over and over again.

You ALSO do not have any data on who's gone, who they've recruited, etc.

What we do have is: at least 80% of EVERYONE is gone. Elon himself has been seen begging for key people to come back, and for anyone who knows how to code to come to the lunchroom.

And the most important thing: Twitter's true problem is not that you can't completely gut the company, let most of the code die and build it over again, possibly newer and better. It's that Elon cannot even communicate what his mission and foundational plans are from one day to the next. Free Speech Absolutism didn't last 60 seconds of real world experience - the bannings and enforcement of behavior rules immediately went opposite of anything within 1000 miles of "just what federal law prohibits". Selling identity for $8 without vetting failed within hours of trying it. Spewing nuclear hate at advertisers turned out to not be the best way to address their very legitimate concerns about content moderation. And the latest turn is that independent moderation council which was going to be empowered before any major reinstatements were made? Oops, never mind.

You have no idea if they have competent people left in the tiny minority of humans reporting to HQ, and those humans have no idea where Elon even wants to go other than own-the-libs and maybe-we-clone-wechat-isn't-that-cool. Good luck with that.

 

[Daniel in SD]

because there are literally no other options.

Pretty sure many posts mention the other option, find another sponsor in 60 days or leave the country.
Are you contending that everyone has changed their opinion due to your excellent debating skills? I think it’s possible you just misunderstood.

 

[wdolson]

Here's what I know: You and other armchair quarterbacks here have no idea who is gone from Twitter's engineering team, who remains or is newly recruited, what they are capable of, and what their plans are... unless you are one of them, in which case you'd have no time to post here.

I have pleaded for patience as the greatest entrepreneur in modern history builds a world-class software team from the remnants of a bloated money-losing collection of malcontents. But of course, patience is less satisfying to the kibitzing urge than opining about things you know little about, over and over again.

The number and quality of the engineers is irrelevant if the reputation of the business is completely destroyed. What they could end up with is a well designed reboot of 8chan and nothing more.

Quality content producers are fleeing to Mastadon, Substack, and Post.news. Right now they are duplicating content between platforms, most hope that Twitter survives, but they are creating alternatives in case Twitter becomes unusable, or there is a mass exodus. This is happening fast enough that whatever changes happen aren't going to be enough to save the platform.

The technology is secondary to the people. A social media site is nothing if few people want to use it.

 

[Ogre]

The number and quality of the engineers is irrelevant if the reputation of the business is completely destroyed. What they could end up with is a well designed reboot of 8chan and nothing more.

Another veiled reference to the destruction of Twitter which will be denied later.

Pretty much non-stop then when it’s called out later on “We never said that”.



@Daniel in SD

 

[ElectricIAC]

The naysayers will do what they do but they’ll be just as captive an audience as the fans. Moreso even!

 

[Ogre]

Quality content producers are fleeing to Mastadon, Substack, and Post.news. Right now they are duplicating content between platforms, most hope that Twitter survives, but they are creating alternatives in case Twitter becomes unusable, or there is a mass exodus. This is happening fast enough that whatever changes happen aren't going to be enough to save the platform.

People have left Twitter in a tiff before. People leave loudly, and return quietly.

It turns out that making a big deal about going to Mastadon doesn’t mean your followers will quit Twitter and follow you. They will post on Mastadon… realize they only have 50 followers, try to hold out for 2 months… then slink back.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Another veiled reference to the destruction of Twitter which will be denied later.

Pretty much non-stop then when it’s called out later on “We never said that”.



@Daniel in SD

Uhmmm... It's an opinion about the risk of all the content creators leaving Twitter. It is a risk, feel free to quote me on that.

 

[Ogre]

Uhmmm... It's an opinion about the risk of all the content creators leaving Twitter. It is a risk, feel free to quote me on that.

Yes, one of the many “Twitter is dying” scenarios people hint at.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I guess this is why Robin Wheeler was fired. It really seems like Twitter is getting out of the advertising business.

Per Bloomberg: Elon Musk is considering firing more Twitter Inc. employees as soon as Monday, this time targeting the sales and partnership side of the business after mass resignations among engineers on Thursday, according to people familiar with the matter.

Musk had offered Twitter employees an ultimatum: either stay on and work long hours in a more “hardcore” version of Twitter, or leave with severance pay. More employees in technical roles opted to leave than expected, compared to those in sales, partnerships and similar roles, said the people, who declined to be named discussing internal matters.

On Friday, Musk asked leaders in those organizations to agree to fire more employees. Robin Wheeler, who ran marketing and sales, refused to do so, the people said. So did Maggie Suniewick, who ran partnerships. Both lost their jobs as a result, the people added.

Wheeler and Suniewick didn’t respond to requests for comment. Twitter, which no longer has a communications department, did not respond to a message sent to its press line.