This is how important the 60 foot time is for the 1/4 mile

Everyone is wondering how much better the Model 3 Performance time can get with the new vehicle. This post will attempt to show how impactful a very small decrease in 60 foot time can be for your total 1/4 mile time. I have 4 separate runs down the same lane of the same track with my 2022 Model 3 Performance listed below. This data shows that a .01 second improvement in your 60' time can amount to a .04 difference in your 1/4 mile time even if the trap speeds are virtually identical.

Just imagine what a .1 reduction in the 60' time would do especially if you have increased power throughout the entire run. If trap speed changes were minimal then you could expect about a .4 decrease in 1/4 mile time. However, the new Model 3 Performance should not only have a significant decrease in 60' time but it should also have a significant increase in power throughout the entire 1/4 mile pass. If you combine a significantly harder launch with significantly more power right from the start you can get dramatic decreases in 1/4 mile times.

I can't stress enough how important it is to ignore the power figures Tesla lists for these cars and concentrate more on the entire power curve increases. I have a mockup of what I think the new Model 3 power curve in KW may look like vs. the old cars power curve as captured by my Teslogic device. Max combined power in my 2022 Model 3 Performance was 434 KW according to the Teslogic device.

Tesla claims the new car's rear motor produces:

+22% more continuous power
+32% more peak power
+16% more peak torque

Those 3 specifications demonstrate a power increase from 0 mph throughout an entire 1/4 mile pass. The car produces peak torque from 0-40 mph. Peak power of the new car will be sustained from about 40 mph through about 90 mph in my estimation. Then it will have at least a 22% power increase throughout the rest of the run. Those increases in power will directly correlate with an increase in trap speeds.

Here are the four 1/4 mile passes and what changed on the car for each pass. Compare the intermediate times for each pass and look at how little the trap speeds change despite there being significant decreases in the 1/4 mile times. Remember, this new Model 3 Performance is going to have a better 60' time AND significantly more power throughout the run. 1/4 mile times will be drastically different in ideal conditions.

60ft = 1.83, 330ft = 4.79, 1/8 = 7.30 @ 96.61, 1000ft = 9.53 @ 109.13, 1/4 = 11.43 @ 117.67 Stock
60ft = 1.79, 330ft = 4.73, 1/8 = 7.23 @ 97.44, 1000ft = 9.43 @ 110.43, 1/4 = 11.31 @ 119.34 18" Wheel
60ft = 1.78, 330ft = 4.71, 1/8 = 7.20 @ 97.76, 1000ft = 9.39 @ 110.68, 1/4 = 11.27 @ 119.52 18" Wheel
60ft = 1.75, 330ft = 4.65, 1/8 = 7.12 @ 98.39, 1000ft = 9.30 @ 111.19, 1/4 = 11.17 @ 120.00 18" Wheel + 150 lbs of weight reduction

As you can see from the data every .01 seconds you decrease the 60' time by typically translates into a .03-.04 second reduction in the 1/4 mile time with minimal gains in trap speed. Just imagine what the 1/4 mile time for a 1.73 60' and a 125+ mph trap speed would look like? Maybe something like this?

 

[JezzaE]

Everyone is wondering how much better the Model 3 Performance time can get with the new vehicle. This post will attempt to show how impactful a very small decrease in 60 foot time can be for your total 1/4 mile time. I have 4 separate runs down the same lane of the same track with my 2022 Model 3 Performance listed below. This data shows that a .01 second improvement in your 60' time can amount to a .04 difference in your 1/4 mile time even if the trap speeds are virtually identical.

Just imagine what a .1 reduction in the 60' time would do especially if you have increased power throughout the entire run. If trap speed changes were minimal then you could expect about a .4 decrease in 1/4 mile time. However, the new Model 3 Performance should not only have a significant decrease in 60' time but it should also have a significant increase in power throughout the entire 1/4 mile pass. If you combine a significantly harder launch with significantly more power right from the start you can get dramatic decreases in 1/4 mile times.

I can't stress enough how important it is to ignore the power figures Tesla lists for these cars and concentrate more on the entire power curve increases. I have a mockup of what I think the new Model 3 power curve in KW may look like vs. the old cars power curve as captured by my Teslogic device. Max combined power in my 2022 Model 3 Performance was 434 KW according to the Teslogic device.

View attachment 1043410

Tesla claims the new car's rear motor produces:

+22% more continuous power
+32% more peak power
+16% more peak torque

Those 3 specifications demonstrate a power increase from 0 mph throughout an entire 1/4 mile pass. The car produces peak torque from 0-40 mph. Peak power of the new car will be sustained from about 40 mph through about 90 mph in my estimation. Then it will have at least a 22% power increase throughout the rest of the run. Those increases in power will directly correlate with an increase in trap speeds.

Here are the four 1/4 mile passes and what changed on the car for each pass. Compare the intermediate times for each pass and look at how little the trap speeds change despite there being significant decreases in the 1/4 mile times. Remember, this new Model 3 Performance is going to have a better 60' time AND significantly more power throughout the run. 1/4 mile times will be drastically different in ideal conditions.

60ft = 1.83, 330ft = 4.79, 1/8 = 7.30 @ 96.61, 1000ft = 9.53 @ 109.13, 1/4 = 11.43 @ 117.67 Stock
60ft = 1.79, 330ft = 4.73, 1/8 = 7.23 @ 97.44, 1000ft = 9.43 @ 110.43, 1/4 = 11.31 @ 119.34 18" Wheel
60ft = 1.78, 330ft = 4.71, 1/8 = 7.20 @ 97.76, 1000ft = 9.39 @ 110.68, 1/4 = 11.27 @ 119.52 18" Wheel
60ft = 1.75, 330ft = 4.65, 1/8 = 7.12 @ 98.39, 1000ft = 9.30 @ 111.19, 1/4 = 11.17 @ 120.00 18" Wheel + 150 lbs of weight reduction

As you can see from the data every .01 seconds you decrease the 60' time by typically translates into a .03-.04 second reduction in the 1/4 mile time with minimal gains in trap speed. Just imagine what the 1/4 mile time for a 1.73 60' and a 125+ mph trap speed would look like? Maybe something like this?

View attachment 1043415

View attachment 1043411View attachment 1043412View attachment 1043413View attachment 1043414

I’d be very surprised if we aren’t solidly in the 10’s…10.8 is my guess, which I’d be more than happy with. Thank you for posting your thesis…it is very informative!

 

[fobo]

What about the non US spec cars, I wonder if they will carry any of the improvements.

Not sure if peak power or continuous power will be the most impacted

 

[mpgxsvcd]

What about the non US spec cars, I wonder if they will carry any of the improvements.

Not sure if peak power or continuous power will be the most impacted

All of the new versions will have significant acceleration improvements. The front motor loses so much power after 55 mph. Allowing that motor to drop even more power allows the new rear motor to really shine. The mid range in this new car is going to feel really strong.

 

[Muzzman1]

I’ve been drag racing since the late 80’s and it’s pretty well known that a tenth in the 60’ translates easily into 3 tenths in the 1/4mi.
I have a plaid MS and it annihilates all of my previous drag cars.
My typical 60’ in the high 1.40’s low 1.50’s and typically translates into high 9.20’s and low 9’30’s .
EV’s do so well from the dig because of our torque availability at 0 rpm.
Torque wins races, HP sells cars.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I’ve been drag racing since the late 80’s and it’s pretty well known that a tenth in the 60’ translates easily into 3 tenths in the 1/4mi.
I have a plaid MS and it annihilates all of my previous drag cars.
My typical 60’ in the high 1.40’s low 1.50’s and typically translates into high 9.20’s and low 9’30’s .
EV’s do so well from the dig because of our torque availability at 0 rpm.
Torque wins races, HP sells cars.

HP is torque per unit time. Both win races. The equation for acceleration doesn’t change depending on what speed you are going. You can calculate acceleration from either torque at the wheels or HP.

 

[Muzzman1]

HP is torque per unit time. Both win races. The equation for acceleration doesn’t change depending on what speed you are going. You can calculate acceleration from either torque at the wheels or HP.

....it's a old racers saying ....wasn't meant to be literal, but thanks for the lesson in HP/Torque relationships.

 

[lee82]

I literally signed up to comment on your theoretical dyno graph. =)

While I want to believe it's going to have +100hp at 100 mph, and that would check the box of Teslas claim of +33% peak horsepower gain over the outgoing M3P. Based on the figures Tesla lists, the difference between the outgoing M3P and the new M3P will be about the same as the '23 M3P and LR.

My guess is that we will see an 11.0 second car @ 122-123 mph with stock trim. That's +5 mph and -.5 seconds in the 1/4, which seems reasonable to me. I don't think there is any way we will see 10's at 125+. That's C8 Z06 territory...

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I literally signed up to comment on your theoretical dyno graph. =)

While I want to believe it's going to have +100hp at 100 mph, and that would check the box of Teslas claim of +33% peak horsepower gain over the outgoing M3P. Based on the figures Tesla lists, the difference between the outgoing M3P and the new M3P will be about the same as the '23 M3P and LR.

My guess is that we will see an 11.0 second car @ 122-123 mph with stock trim. That's +5 mph and -.5 seconds in the 1/4, which seems reasonable to me. I don't think there is any way we will see 10's at 125+. That's C8 Z06 territory...

C8 Z06 is doing 130 mph at the 1/4 mile and that is with a terrible 0-60 mph of 3.34. I did 11.17 @ 120.0 mph. If I got to 123 mph instead of 120 mph that alone would get me to 11.00. Nevermind, the fact that this car is quicker off the line and to 60 mph.

This car adds all of the extra power early on in the run. This whole post demonstrates how adding power early nets you huge gains later. Gains at the beginning are compounded as you go down the track.

This car won't even need to trap that high to get in the 10s. It will still fall off over 95+ mph but it won't matter as much because the first half of the 1/4 mile is so much stronger.

The biggest difference between the new car and the old one is between 60 to 90 mph. 0-60 mph doesn't capture any of those higher speed gains.

 

[lee82]

C8 Z06 is doing 130 mph at the 1/4 mile and that is with a terrible 0-60 mph of 3.34. I did 11.17 @ 120.0 mph. If I got to 123 mph instead of 120 mph that alone would get me to 11.00. Nevermind, the fact that this car is quicker off the line and to 60 mph.

This car adds all of the extra power early on in the run. This whole post demonstrates how adding power early nets you huge gains later. Gains at the beginning are compounded as you go down the track.

This car won't even need to trap that high to get in the 10s. It will still fall off over 95+ mph but it won't matter as much because the first half of the 1/4 mile is so much stronger.

The biggest difference between the new car and the old one is between 60 to 90 mph. 0-60 mph doesn't capture any of those higher speed gains.

You’re likely right. I think the original ludicrous Model S P100D (or 85?) was running mid 10s @ low-mid 120s, and it was 900 lb heavier. My M3LR with acceleration boost has done 11.9 @ 115.x with a 3.8 0-60. 10s could be doable.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

It is pretty easy to calculate what 16% greater rear motor torque will do to the 0-60 mph time. From the data I have the rear motor holds 60% of the car's total torque to about 48 mph. That 16% gain at the rear motor acts like a 10% total gain to roughly 40 mph where torque falls off from being constant.

I have a chart below with all of the 10 mph increment times for my 0-60 mph runs with various modifications plus a couple of 100% stock runs. Since the car holds its max torque constant to about 40 mph you can predict what the 10% overall torque gain will do to the true 0-60 mph time.

As you can see from the chart below with no modifications at all and a cold battery my current car did a true 0-60 mph in 3.28 seconds. If the only difference in the new car was the 16% rear motor advantage then the new car would do a true 0-60 mph in 3.09 seconds with a cold battery. It would do a 3.04 vs. the current cars 3.23 with a hot battery. It would also do a 2.96 vs. the current car's 3.15 true 0-60 mph if it had much lighter and smaller wheels. Finally, the new car would do a 2.83 vs. the 3.01 I did with my current car and the 18" wheels plus 150 lbs more of weight reduction.

The new 20" forged wheels are claimed to be lighter so it might be best to compare the new car's time with the 3.15 time my car did with lighter wheels.

In all likelihood the new car will be able to do an true 0-60 mph time somewhere between 2.96 and 3.04 seconds. However, I am not factoring in the extra power that it produces above 40 mph which is actually more significant than the 16% more torque. My guess is that the new car will actually be able to do a 2.95 second 0-60 mph without subtracting the ~.2 seconds of rollout. That would put it around 2.75 seconds for 0-60 mph with rollout subtracted. However, if the launch is any harder than before it could change the advantage significantly.

Look at the fourth column below. It shows the difference in time for each 10 mph increment. Notice how the acceleration is basically constant from 0-40 mph and perhaps even up to 50 mph for the current car. However, the 50-60 mph time drops off dramatically. The new car will still fall off from constant torque around 40 mph but it won't fall off anywhere near as dramatically as this. It will pull so much harder all the way up to about 90-100 mph.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Here are two Dragy screenshots showing the fastest and slowest you could go and run 0-60 mph in 2.9 seconds with rollout subtracted.

The 100% stock Model 3 Performance did 0-60 mph in 3.23 seconds without subtracting rollout. There is no way the new car is only going to be .1 seconds quicker. Changing the wheels alone could get you almost .1 seconds.

My guess is that the new car will be able to do 2.95 seconds for 0-60 mph without subtracting rollout.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

My prediction is that the new car’s 1/4 mile times will look very similar to this.

 

[Lolo780]

My prediction is that the new car’s 1/4 mile times will look very similar to this.

View attachment 1047468

If so, the new car will be a bargain for those that can get the tax credit.

 

[Lindenwood]

If so, the new car will be a bargain for those that can get the tax credit.

Honestly, the new car will be a bargain for anyone looking for a 10.X car that can drive itself while getting 100mpg as a daily commuter for 4.75 people .